What will the Willshapers do?

[ChoutaHasClouta]

At the end of Oathbrinnger, as we all know, Venli becomes a Willshaper. Knowing as we do that this order has access to the Surges of Transportation and Cohesion. Transportation has only, as of pre-Stormlight Four. been used by Jasnah to manifest her body directly into the Cognitive Realm. But this doesn't necessarily mean that the Willshapers will be able to do the same thing. The possibility of Transportation being used for a purpose other than that which relates directly to the Cognitive Realm becomes more pressing when the fact that the Elsecallers "never relinquish[ed] their place as prime liaisons with the great ones of the spren" is considered. It is of course likely that Transportation as the Willshapers use it is tied to that which is Cognitive - but my question is, what do we think the application of this will be? and how will it affect the Willshaper's use of Cohesion?

[Karger]

Great question.  Most causal readers and some serious ones seem to think that Willshapers will be combining their surges to teleport.  We know that they are related to Kelek who is the Herald of artisans and craftspeople and that many Willshapers were explorers and inventors.  They were also well known for their love of novelty and for being intolerant of authority.

[Calderis]

I think that the surge of Transportation will function exactly the same for Willshapers as it does for Elsecallers. Primarily a means of transition, but as the oathgates show, a possible means of teleportation. 

The Elsecallers role as "primary liaisons" places them above both the Willshapers and Lightweavers because they have both Surges that allow access to Shadesmar. They have both the ability to enter shadesmar Physically, which Willshapers share, and the ability to peer into the Cognitive and determine what is there and that transition is actually safe to do, via Transformation. Which Lightweavers share. 

Neither of those other orders can do both. Lightweavers can view it but not enter, and Willshapers can go there, but can't see it until they do. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Calderis

[earthexile]

I suspect they'll be able to make Wheel of Time-style "gateways" by making distant points so similar that they become the same point. 

[Watchcry]

On 5/28/2019 at 3:55 PM, Karger said:

Great question.  Most causal readers and some serious ones seem to think that Willshapers will be combining their surges to teleport.  We know that they are related to Kelek who is the Herald of artisans and craftspeople and that many Willshapers were explorers and inventors.  They were also well known for their love of novelty and for being intolerant of authority.

This is exactly why I think Navani will make a great Willshaper candidate. She's an inventor and is fascinated by what may be. But everyone else thinks she'll be a Bondsmith. 

[Pathfinder]

45 minutes ago, Watchcry said:

This is exactly why I think Navani will make a great Willshaper candidate. She's an inventor and is fascinated by what may be. But everyone else thinks she'll be a Bondsmith. 

Hey who knows. I am still convinced she would be a dustbringer because their spren like looking inside things, and I could see an engineer fitting that. The only thing that sucks is that a WoB says we have not gotten a PoV of a dustbringer yet (this was as of words of radiance I think), and by that time we have gotten a PoV of Navani. I had a random thought though, what if Lirin ends up a dustbringer? I will post a new thread on that. 

[Calyx]

On 6/4/2019 at 9:41 AM, Pathfinder said:

Hey who knows. I am still convinced she would be a dustbringer because their spren like looking inside things, and I could see an engineer fitting that. The only thing that sucks is that a WoB says we have not gotten a PoV of a dustbringer yet (this was as of words of radiance I think), and by that time we have gotten a PoV of Navani. I had a random thought though, what if Lirin ends up a dustbringer? I will post a new thread on that. 

I agree that dustbringer seems like the most comfortable fit for an engineer or hard-scientist personality.

[ZenBossanova]

7 hours ago, Calyx said:

I agree that dustbringer seems like the most comfortable fit for an engineer or hard-scientist personality.

I can't tell you how many chemist's I have met, who got into chemistry because of explosives. 

 

But why do we think that Elsecalling will be the same for both orders? We  have yet to see a shared surge that operates exactly the same. The closest I can think of is flight for Skybreakers & Windrunners. Perhaps Renarin vs Lift healing? 

Dalinar was specifically told his shared surge was different from one he saw in vision. Shallan has yet to transform things the way Jasnah can. When she did do it to the people who became her men, it was very different from Jasnah's surge. 

 TL/DR. might be similar. More likely fundamentally different. 

[Watchcry]

On 6/5/2019 at 8:47 PM, ZenBossanova said:

I can't tell you how many chemist's I have met, who got into chemistry because of explosives. 

 

But why do we think that Elsecalling will be the same for both orders? We  have yet to see a shared surge that operates exactly the same. The closest I can think of is flight for Skybreakers & Windrunners. Perhaps Renarin vs Lift healing? 

Dalinar was specifically told his shared surge was different from one he saw in vision. Shallan has yet to transform things the way Jasnah can. When she did do it to the people who became her men, it was very different from Jasnah's surge. 

 TL/DR. might be similar. More likely fundamentally different. 

Abrasion is similar between Bondsmiths and Windrunners. Dalinar can stick things to other things just like Kaladin. I do think there's a combination surge ability, however. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Watchcry

[Scion of the Mists]

12 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

I can't tell you how many chemist's I have met, who got into chemistry because of explosives. 

 

But why do we think that Elsecalling will be the same for both orders? We  have yet to see a shared surge that operates exactly the same. The closest I can think of is flight for Skybreakers & Windrunners. Perhaps Renarin vs Lift healing? 

Dalinar was specifically told his shared surge was different from one he saw in vision. Shallan has yet to transform things the way Jasnah can. When she did do it to the people who became her men, it was very different from Jasnah's surge. 

 TL/DR. might be similar. More likely fundamentally different. 

We haven't seen very many shared Surges, but the ones we have are pretty much identical.  

Adhesion - same between Dalinar and Kaladin

Gravitation - same between Kaladin and Szeth

Division - only seen Duskbringer (very little)

Abrasion - only seen Edgedancer

Progression - Regrowth is the same/similar between Lift and Renarin

Illumination - only seen Lightweaver

Transformation - same between Shallan and Jasnah

Transportation/Cohesion/Tension - haven't seen Willshapers or Stonewards

[Calyx]

13 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

I can't tell you how many chemist's I have met, who got into chemistry because of explosives. 

You don't have to, because I'm a chemist 

[Watchcry]

4 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

We haven't seen very many shared Surges, but the ones we have are pretty much identical.  

Adhesion - same between Dalinar and Kaladin

Gravitation - same between Kaladin and Szeth

Division - only seen Duskbringer (very little)

Abrasion - only seen Edgedancer

Progression - Regrowth is the same/similar between Lift and Renarin

Illumination - only seen Lightweaver

Transformation - same between Shallan and Jasnah

Transportation/Cohesion/Tension - haven't seen Willshapers or Stonewards

I'd say Shallan has yet to use transformation. Also Lift heals with her mouth, Renarin with his hands. And Kaladin mixes his two surges with a reverse lashing. I think that's unique to his order (maybe?).

[CrazyRioter]

No, Reverse lashing is just Gravitation and Skybreakers can use it.

And Shallan has used Transformation, when she turned the goblet to blood and on the Wind's Pleasure.

Edited June 7, 2019 by CrazyRioter

[Pathfinder]

The full lashing is the one that Skybreakers and by extension Szeth do not have access to because it is the surge of adhesion. 

[Karger]

20 hours ago, Watchcry said:

Also Lift heals with her mouth, Renarin with his hands

If you have read Edgedancer we see Lift heal refugees with her hands as well.

[Watchcry]

On 6/8/2019 at 4:27 AM, Karger said:

If you have read Edgedancer we see Lift heal refugees with her hands as well.

I thought it was her breath as if "to prove to everyone her breath don't stink."

 

On 6/7/2019 at 1:53 PM, CrazyRioter said:

No, Reverse lashing is just Gravitation and Skybreakers can use it.

And Shallan has used Transformation, when she turned the goblet to blood and on the Wind's Pleasure.

Which of the three can't Skybreakers use then? Szeth says they don't have access to all three. My reasoning is that the one they don't have access to is the one that combines gravitation and adhesion. 

 

Nm. Pathfinder says which.