Shardblade Savantism?

[Karger he/him]

We have seen several different kinds of savantism throughout the Cosmere basically the person gets better at using investature the more they do it stretching out their souls in a interesting way.  Is their any reason you can't become a shardblade savant?  Summon your blade so often that it takes less then 10 heartbeats for example?

[StormblessedSurvivor he/him]

Well it takes that long to summon a Blade because it's dead, so I think the only way to do that specific example is to get the spren to be less dead...somehow?

[ShardShaper he/him]

Didn't Adolin summon his blade faster then ten heartbeats in Oathbringer? Anyway, I'm not sure summoning a dead shardblade counts as using investure. Maybe a surge savant though.

[RShara she/her]

A dead Shardblade doesn't really affect your spiritweb, so I would say no, you're not going to be able to become any kind of savant with just a dead Shardblade.

[Kramerfarve]

Yeah you aren’t really doing any magic, using any investiture, when you summon a blade, which is required for any kind of Savantism. The only change happening is a dead body of a spren “remembering” a mechanic hardwired into their nature by their gruesome death by radiant, and transferring from the cognitive to the physical.

[pizzastrology]

Quote

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)
#24 

Questioner

Based on what we know currently about ten heartbeats, why does Szeth require ten heartbeats to bring forth his Honorblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Perception is a very important part of how these things all work, and remember the Honorblades work differently from everything else. Everything was based upon them. Why don't you read and find out what's going on there, but remember that the characters's perception is very important.

Questioner

So then that's why at one point Shallan requires ten heartbeats and now she doesn't?

Brandon Sanderson

Right, it's the exact same reason that Kaladin's forehead wounds don't heal. Because he views himself as having those somewhere deep inside of him and he can't heal until that gets away. And it works for the same reason why in Warbreaker when you bring something to life, your intention rather than really what you say is what matters. It's all about perception.

I don't think it would result in technical savantism, but the characters have a lot to learn about what those strange blades are and how they work. As their perceptions shift, so presumably too might the ten heartbeats thing, along with who knows what else. 

[Kramerfarve]

On 5/8/2019 at 3:57 PM, pizzastrology said:

I don't think it would result in technical savantism, but the characters have a lot to learn about what those strange blades are and how they work. As their perceptions shift, so presumably too might the ten heartbeats thing, along with who knows what else. 

Right, but that WOB had to do with an Honorblade (which is not a deadblade) held by an outlaw who wants to be killed giving himself a handicap, and a living sprenblade held by someone who did not think herself a radiant (also not a deadblade) extrapolating Brandon’s answer here to all shardblades is logically flawed. What matters with dead shardblades is not as simple as a change in perception.

[Karger he/him]

7 hours ago, Kramerfarve said:

Right, but that WOB had to do with an Honorblade (which is not a deadblade) held by an outlaw who wants to be killed giving himself a handicap, and a living sprenblade held by someone who did not think herself a radiant (also not a deadblade) extrapolating Brandon’s answer here to all shardblades is logically flawed. What matters with dead shardblades is not as simple as a change in perception.

Exactly.  If we assume that these deadblades react like live blades we are creating a fallacy of analogy.

[Rainier]

On 5/6/2019 at 1:54 PM, Karger said:

Summon your blade so often that it takes less then 10 heartbeats for example?

Haven't we seen exactly this with Adolin? I recall he summoned Maya in something like 7 heartbeats during the battle of Thaylen City. Similar to how he throws the blade and it stays solid for a distance instead of disappearing immediately.

So we're already seeing this in action, and with a 'dead' blade, too. I think this just goes to show how important force of will, and intent, are to everything in the Cosmere. 

[Karger he/him]

Just now, Rainier said:

Haven't we seen exactly this with Adolin? I recall he summoned Maya in something like 7 heartbeats during the battle of Thaylen City. Similar to how he throws the blade and it stays solid for a distance instead of disappearing immediately.

I wish someone would ask Brandon this but we don't have that confirmed.

[Calderis he/him]

10 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Haven't we seen exactly this with Adolin? I recall he summoned Maya in something like 7 heartbeats during the battle of Thaylen City. Similar to how he throws the blade and it stays solid for a distance instead of disappearing immediately.

So we're already seeing this in action, and with a 'dead' blade, too. I think this just goes to show how important force of will, and intent, are to everything in the Cosmere. 

I strongly doubt that's just "perception." 

He also heard her speak her name in his mind. That seems to imply a change within her. Not in his thinking. 

[Kramerfarve]

10 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Haven't we seen exactly this with Adolin? I recall he summoned Maya in something like 7 heartbeats during the battle of Thaylen City. Similar to how he throws the blade and it stays solid for a distance instead of disappearing immediately.

So we're already seeing this in action, and with a 'dead' blade, too. I think this just goes to show how important force of will, and intent, are to everything in the Cosmere. 

How can you possibly call Adolin’s arc with Maya just a change in perception though? He spent the better portion of the shadesmar section actually interacting with her, and in a way forming a bond. This case is way more complex than what you are implying with the idea of perception. If everything really did come down to force of will and intent, there would be no need for genuine interactions between people, and this mentality leads to certain philosophies such as Social Darwinism that I’d rather not see play out on the Cosmere wide scale.

[Rainier]

1 minute ago, Kramerfarve said:

How can you possibly call Adolin’s arc with Maya just a change in perception though?

I didn't? I didn't even use the word perception. His arc with Maya can serve multiple purposes, and right now I don't even care about his arc here, just that details from his experience can inform the question at hand.

There's a reason why I didn't use the word perception, despite the WoB, because will and intent are better words for what I'm trying to get at. Perception is what you see in the world, Intent is what you're doing to it. Perception is knowing that a shardblade is a dead spren. Intent is throwing a shardblade and willing it to stay solid. Adolin treated his blade like it was a real person. He talked to his blade. He cared for his blade. When he Intends for his blade to stay together when he throws it, he's exerting his will to hold it together cognitively. It's his Intent which allows him to do these things. It's his perception that allows Maya to communicate back to him. 

4 minutes ago, Kramerfarve said:

If everything really did come down to force of will and intent, there would be no need for genuine interactions between people, and this mentality leads to certain philosophies such as Social Darwinism that I’d rather not see play out on the Cosmere wide scale.

Again, you're going way beyond what I wrote. I never said the only thing that matters is force of will and intent, I'm saying that those things matter, and matter greatly. And there's more in the Cosmere with will and intent than just people. Stick wants to stay a stick, after all, and will continue staying a stick until overwhelmed by the intent of another. Furthermore, there's only so much attention and effort you can exert. Just because everything is based on our perceptions of them, and our intents can change them, doesn't mean we have the ability to change very much at once. 

As for the mentality, I point you to the Lord Ruler, whose Intent combined with massive power to reshape the entire world, all without any genuine interactions between him and other people. So yes, with sufficient power, it really does come down to will and intent, and when we finally see a Shard get splintered, I'm betting it's going to be force of will that does it.

[Karger he/him]

20 minutes ago, Kramerfarve said:

If everything really did come down to force of will and intent, there would be no need for genuine interactions between people, and this mentality leads to certain philosophies such as Social Darwinism that I’d rather not see play out on the Cosmere wide scale.

How does trying to understand the world and people around you lead to Social Darwinism?

[Kramerfarve]

I concede I read way too far into what rainier was saying, and formally apologize, brain is a bit rattled right now due to exams.