Kelsier is differnt from Reshek?

[Karger he/him]

Reading Mistborn for the first time I don't think anyone immediately says, "You know who reminds me of Reshek?  Kelseir!" At the same time many people end up thinking about how similar the two are by the time they finish secret history.  What made them appear so different?  Was it just their style? Their attitude?  Did we know one much better then the other?  Both were undoubtedly arrogant.  Both (at least sometimes) saw humans as malleable tools to be manipulated.  Both of them have been described for their anger and poor impulse control at one time or another, their boldness, and the remarkable loyalty they were able to inspire.  So why is it that whenever anyone calls them similar I immediately want to disagree? 

Perhaps it is Kelseir's sense of humor or his sense of style?  Is it because of his curiosity or his adaptability?  Is it because of the genuine care he shows sometimes shows for people on an individual level?

For his part Reshek seems different as well.  True we mostly know him only at two points in his career(the end and the beginning) but he seems most notable for his apathy arrogance and inability to admit to personal fault.  These may well have been caused by his divinity but even as a youth Alendi never notes any curiosity in the man only a rugged charm and stubbornness.  He also does not show any level of adaptability (it takes a very firm mind to believe that metallic arts grant one a level of superiority and keep that opinion through godhood and a millennia).  I think what makes them so different is Kelsier's ability to change his goals, opinions and attitudes when confronted with new information and Reshek simply can't.

What do you think the difference between them is?  Do you even think there is a difference?

[+Artemos he/him]

The recent Shardcast episode focused on TLR and gave several good examples why people compare the two, so that's why people may be talking about it recently.

10 hours ago, Karger said:

I think what makes them so different is Kelsier's ability to change his goals, opinions and attitudes when confronted with new information and Reshek simply can't.

What are your examples of this? This only one I can think of was his opinion of Elend. For the most part, Kelsier was very consistent in his hatred of the nobility.

Similarly, Rashek hated the Khlenni, calling them oppressors of his people.

Brandon has said that Kelsier would be the villain in another story.

10 hours ago, Karger said:

he seems most notable for his apathy arrogance

Keslier is extremely apathetic towards nobles and also very arrogant, I'd say.

10 hours ago, Karger said:

rugged charm

Kelsier, too, was very charismatic.

[Elegy he/him]

Brandon said that Kelsier could have been the antagonist in a different story, yes, but he wouldn't have been like Rashek, he would have been like a certain guy from Warbreaker. Kelsier is not a dictator who uses koloss and inquisitors to oppress people for 1000 years. Of course he's a maniac in his own way, but at least he is able to feel remorse over the deaths of some people, and yes, those are only a selected group, but hey, they exist (like in FE chp. 25 where Vin has to stop him from throwing his life away by trying to help his dying army). He has people he cares about, and I don't think the same can be said about Rashek. That guy has told himself that everything he does is justified to save Scadrial, but there isn't one person he would feel bad killing - at least I wouldn't know who that would be.

In my opinion, they are both very different characters, since Rashek doesn't seem to have any kind of emotion left, he's just used to destroying things, while Kelsier is a very emotion driven character and destructive for that reason in turn. Of course, they are similar in the sense that they both have been (albeit opposed) destructive forces on Scadrial and both have done things to serve Ruin without knowing it (Rashek providing a whole hemalurgic army for Ruin to control, thanks a lot, and Kelsier overthrowing the Empire, the latter being the more excusable thing to do, in my opinion). They are different persons, but have done things that have similar ramifications, which is the reason for the ongoing parallels that Secret History points to. (Like Kelsier saying "almost", when he's asked if he is Lord Ruler). I'm not saying they should not be compared, the books obviously encourage the reader to do that. But their personalities are different. Thinking of it, Rashek seems to have been more like Marsh pre-Empire.

Also:

29 minutes ago, Artemos said:

What are your examples of this? This only one I can think of was his opinion of Elend. For the most part, Kelsier was very consistent in his hatred of the nobility.

Secret History provides several examples. His hatred of the nobility is not touched upon there though, so that's probably true.

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, Artemos said:

What are your examples of this? This only one I can think of was his opinion of Elend. For the most part, Kelsier was very consistent in his hatred of the nobility.

His last orders to Vin are about not killing nobility.  He changed from thief who just wanted to get rich into individual overthrowing the empire. 

 

1 hour ago, Artemos said:

Keslier is extremely apathetic towards nobles and also very arrogant, I'd say.

I meant apathetic in the littoral sense as in to not care.  When we meet him for the first time he does not seem to be even interested in an attempt on his life.  True it posses no threat to him but the fact that he is ignoring a local revolution and regularly allows house wars is amazing.  Even if Kelseir lived thousands of years can you imagine him not taking an interest in those kinds of events?

[Calderis he/him]

I mean, trying to say that Kelsier wouldn't have ended up like Rashek is kind of a bad example. He easily could have. 

Even Vin, had she taken up the well and tried to do what Rashek had done would have ended up as bad as he was or worse. 

Quote

Kaimipono

What was Vin supposed to do at the end of Well of Ascension? How exactly did not-using the power, end up releasing Ruin? I still don't get how that all worked. Can you explain it?

Brandon Sanderson

What was she supposed to do? Well, this is difficult to answer, since the prophecies have been changed and shifted so much. Originally, the prophesies intended for a person to go take the power every thousand years and become a protector of mankind for a period of time. Someone to keep an eye on Ruin in Preservation's absence and watch over the world as he would have done. Imagine an avatar who arrives every thousand years and lives for their lifetime blessing the people with the power of Preservation, renewing Ruin's prison, and generally being a force for protection. (Note that Ruin wouldn't have gotten out if the prison wasn't renewed, he'd simply have been able to touch the world a little bit more.) Obviously, it changed a LOT during the years that Ruin was playing with things.

What should she have done? Well, Ruin's release was inevitable. Even if she hadn't let him go, the world would have 'wound down' eventually. The ashfalls would have grown worse over the centuries, and the next buildup of the Well might not have come in time for them to do anything. Or, perhaps, mankind would have found a way to adapt. But Ruin was going to get himself out eventually, so the choice Vin made was all right. There weren't really any good choices at this point. She could have decided to take the power and become a 'good' Lord Ruler, trying to keep the world from falling apart. Of course, she would have had to make herself immortal with Hemalurgy to make that work right. And since she was already tainted, chances are good she wouldn't have ended up any better than the Lord Ruler himself.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

We don't know enough about Rashek pre-ascension to compare, and afterwards... 

[+robardin he/him]

"Would have had to make herself immortal with Hemalurgy to make that work right?"

I didn't remember TLR needing hemalurgy for his immortality trick, which was a matter of compounding atium, wasn't it?

[Calderis he/him]

42 minutes ago, robardin said:

"Would have had to make herself immortal with Hemalurgy to make that work right?"

I didn't remember TLR needing hemalurgy for his immortality trick, which was a matter of compounding atium, wasn't it?

Vin wasn't a Feruchemist. 

[+robardin he/him]

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Vin wasn't a Feruchemist. 

Ah, I see. Got it, spike herself for F-atium, eh? But if she'd taken the power of Ascension, couldn't she have rewritten her sDNA to be a Fullborn just like Rashek had done, just for the "other half" of being Fullborn?

[Calderis he/him]

Just now, robardin said:

Ah, I see. Got it, spike herself for F-atium, eh? But if she'd taken the power of Ascension, couldn't she have rewritten her sDNA to be a Fullborn just like Rashek had done, just for the "other half" of being Fullborn?

Probably. It's an old WoB, so things get a little wonky anyways. I'm more focused on the whole "would have ended up as bad as Rashek" part. 

[+robardin he/him]

5 hours ago, Calderis said:

Probably. It's an old WoB, so things get a little wonky anyways. I'm more focused on the whole "would have ended up as bad as Rashek" part. 

Yeah, I seem to recall an early WoB that hemalurgy was how TLR pulled off his most spectacular effects, when it seems like it was really compounding plus being beyond a first degree lerasium Allomancer in strength due to having Ascended. So at one point he imagined hemalurgy being a component of TLR's portfolio, which thus made him open to hearing Ruin for a thousand years, which would drive even Vin to do bad things eventually.