How did Lopen use Stormlight

[Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker he/him]

Ok, so at the end of WOR lopen is sitting in New Herdaz in Sebrial’s warcamp with Elhokar and his mom; and manages to draw in stormlight.

However at this time Kaladin is at Urithiru/Narak so how would Lopen draw in stormlight at a range more than 50 miles? (the distance Sizgil placed the squires range at)

@PeterAhlstrom Is this a continuity error?

Edited April 7, 2019 by Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker

[Wandering Investor]

I think there are two possible solutions to this issue. The first is that Kaladin had recently been there, and Lopen's squire powers hadn't quite faded. I can't recall if the powers are lost instantly or if there's a time of decline off the top of my head though. Perhaps Kaladin's recent Ideal created some temporary power boost beyond the normal effects, allowing the squires to last longer and farther then expected.

The second is that Lopen may have already attracted the attentions of an honorspren by that point, gaining some minor powers independent of Kaladin, although I don't think there's evidence to support this later when he's separated again. Unless he assumed he needed Kaladin and never bothered to try when he was gone, doubtful for the Lopen.

And of course, the third option, it was a mistake.. 

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, Wandering Investor said:

I think there are two possible solutions to this issue. The first is that Kaladin had recently been there, and Lopen's squire powers hadn't quite faded. I can't recall if the powers are lost instantly or if there's a time of decline off the top of my head though. Perhaps Kaladin's recent Ideal created some temporary power boost beyond the normal effects, allowing the squires to last longer and farther then expected.

It's not instantaneous, it drops off over the course of a few hours. and assuming those two scenes are sequential, Kaladin had just arrived in Urithiru. 

Time lines don't always match up perfectly, though WoR is much better in that regard than tWoK was. They mention the unexpected storm which makes it seem like this should be quite a bit later, but they also mention Elhokar showing up after the storm, which didn't happen. 

Quote

“Word has come in to all the warcamps from Highprince Sebarial,” Chilinko said in Herdazian. “They found something out there, on the Plains. Be ready. Just in case. Everyone’s talking. I can’t make sense of it.” He shook his head. “First that highstorm nobody knew about, then the rains stop early, then the storming king man of Alethkar on my doorstep. Now this. I think we might be abandoning camp, even though nightfall’s around the corner. Makes no sense to me, but get the king man taken care of.”

Kaladin got Elhokar to safety before the storm occurred or he couldn't have arrived to save Dalinar. 

He didn't go through the Oathgate until after the storm had passed. And you see his arrival in Urithiru directly before Lopen's scene... So it's tight, but I don't think there's a conflict here.

[Weltall]

Brandon has confirmed that Lopen was a squire at that point and didn't have a bond of his own. Oathbringer confirms that squires' power fades away when the Radiant they're connected to is far away but they don't vanish immediately; not much time passes between Kaladin leaving the warcamps to find Dalinar and the scene with Lopen so he still could have taken in stormlight at that point.

[Karger he/him]

Perhaps Kaladin is coming back to get the king at this point so Lopen's powers activate.  I also personally wonder if the squire's abilities are actually tied to distance as their connection to Kaladin is through the spiritual realm and should not matter.  I have the theory that because Lopen is in Kaladin's mind and under his orders his powers might have an expanded range.

[Calderis he/him]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

Perhaps Kaladin is coming back to get the king at this point so Lopen's powers activate.  I also personally wonder if the squire's abilities are actually tied to distance as their connection to Kaladin is through the spiritual realm and should not matter.  I have the theory that because Lopen is in Kaladin's mind and under his orders his powers might have an expanded range.

There are elements to the bond itself, not just with Squires that create range limitations. We've been told (and seen with Syl's fear of losing herself when she retrieves the blackbane leaf) that the bond itself is range limited. 

Combine that with Sigzil's tests that give us an actual range on Squires and I don't think it's untrue. 

[Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker he/him]

21 minutes ago, Calderis said:

There are elements to the bond itself, not just with Squires that create range limitations. We've been told (and seen with Syl's fear of losing herself when she retrieves the blackbane leaf) that the bond itself is range limited. 

Combine that with Sigzil's tests that give us an actual range on Squires and I don't think it's untrue. 

Perhaps like almost everything else in the Cosmere it is about perception; Lopen didn’t know/think about his range being tied to Kaladin, so it wasn’t.

[Calderis he/him]

4 minutes ago, Lord Mistborn Bondbreaker said:

Perhaps like almost everything else in the Cosmere it is about perception; Lopen didn’t know/think about his range being tied to Kaladin, so it wasn’t.

Or, it just occurred within a timeframe of Kaladin leaving through the oathgate that his powers were valid. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Calderis

[Karger he/him]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

Or, it just occurred within a timeframe of Kaladin leaving through the oathgate that his powers were valid. 

Perhaps, it is only a theory after all.  However Sigzil's scientific tests cannot factor in emotional or internal responses that humans feel(most scientific tests are realy bad at accounting for emotion). Syl would have lost herself if she was out of Kaladin's mind.  If Roshar were to gain phones do you think that a squire on the phone with Kaladin would be able use their powers?

[Seon Are he/him]

21 minutes ago, Karger said:

However Sigzil's scientific tests cannot factor in emotional or internal responses that humans feel(most scientific tests are realy bad at accounting for emotion).

But Sigzil's tests gave extremely accurate and consistent amounts as to how far Kaladin could go before they started to lose power. Not only that but for your theory to work it would make more sense if it was more based on time. I don't tend to only think of someone as being away from me when they reach a certain distance.

 

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, Seon Are said:

I don't tend to only think of someone as being away from me when they reach a certain distance.

I most likely explained poorly.  When I said think of.  I meant in the context of being able to give orders or keep track of what they are doing presently.  For example while living away from a family member I may think of them but I would not factor them into my daily schedule or make plans including them.

[Seon Are he/him]

Even so, you would expect that to only be a factor after a certain amount of time. For instance, if Kaladin flew off and everyone knew he was coming back and wasn't going that far, why would the power of squires drop off at all? It would only drop off if Kaladin left for a long period of time and Sigzil would be unable to put precise measurements on how far Kaladin could go.