Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 At at least one point in Stormlight it has been heavily implied that Odium has been wounded in the past, and he’s referred to as the ‘Broken One’, but what exactly do we think that means? I know that there’s a WOB in which Brandon hints that in his battle with Dominion, Skai manages to put up a really good fight (or at least that’s how I interpreted it), so is it possible that he managed to do some kind of irreparable harm to Odium? Maim him, so to speak, whatever that term would even mean when applied to a post-physical being like a Shard? Maybe the Shardic-equivalent of lopping off a limb? Or am I probably reading more into this than there is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 I think it was probably whatever investiture Honor/Cultivation managed to take from Odium that stuck him in Rosharian system. Dominion may have injured him but i don't think it was long-lasting effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void89 he/him Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Could be though, those shards are basically gods - just because one is 'evil' doesn't mean he is the most powerful of them all. That's also something that always bothered me a little that odium seems to have no real problem fighting against several shards, and always gets out of it victorious - so the maiming thing would be a welcoming change tbh How many did he kill now? 'Brief visit to sel...' Dominion and Devotion I think they were. (Passing by and just casually killing them both... that's how it comes across at least I mean wth?) Then Tanavast, that makes 3... it's just - why the heck? How can he be that much more powerful than 3 shards? Did he get the piece that was bigger than all the other ones? Just makes not a ton of sense to me. Vin was able to kill ruin by killing herself, otherwise they just blocked each other - so why is odium so much better at it without any real sacrifice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naurock Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said: At at least one point in Stormlight it has been heavily implied that Odium has been wounded in the past, and he’s referred to as the ‘Broken One’, but what exactly do we think that means? I've also wonered what "The Broken One" meant. But I'm also not sure it was specifically stated it was Odium, just implied. Which with Brandon always makes me second guess who it could be. I'll have to check my book, but I think when the Stormfather told Dalinar, Jasnah and Navani about the battle of champions that when it was said he's been injured. I have WoK and WoR on eBook but not Oathbringer. @Void89 don't forget he killed Ambition too. Which caused the Shades on Threnody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bliev she/her Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 @Void89 I don’t think he’s “better” per se; I think he took them off guard. That’s why honor and cultivation managed to bind him, because they were more prepared. And it’s probably why Endowment is unafraid. I got the sense that he struck when they were not expecting any threats at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted January 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 @Void89 Well the thing to remember about Devotion and Dominion is that those two Shards already have somewhat opposing intents; one's about dominating people, the other is about love and compassion. So it's entirely possible that the two of them wouldn't have stood together against Odium when he was there, and probably had a somewhat fractious relationship already. And in fact, if I recall correctly, Brandon hinted at one point that Odium somehow managed to make Aona and Skai turn on each other, which might explain it. But as for Roshar, yeah, that has never made any sense to me whatsoever. Because Honor and Cultivation were very close, at the very least lovers, possibly even husband and wife, and thus Odium would not have been able to do that with them. And I refuse to believe that he is powerful enough to take on two Shards that have united against him at the same time, especially when neither of their intents would seem to preclude them from defending themselves or going on the offensive. So I have no idea how he ever managed to gain any power in Roshar, much less splinter Honor. But I guess we'll find that out eventually. But Odium certainly does seem wary of Cultivation if nothing else. Hell hath no fury and all that, I guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 I'm pretty sure it's implied Odium had help, my guess is Autonomy and they would've stayed allies until they killed everyone else and went at it Highlander style. Also, weren't Aona and Skai a couple too, not that it means anything because looked what happened to Ati. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted January 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 31 minutes ago, Angsos said: I'm pretty sure it's implied Odium had help, my guess is Autonomy and they would've stayed allies until they killed everyone else and went at it Highlander style. Also, weren't Aona and Skai a couple too, not that it means anything because looked what happened to Ati. I’m pretty sure Brandon has said that Aona and Skai’s relationship was purely business like, which in no way implies any real affection for one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void89 he/him Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 I can't imagine skai or aona standing by watching odium kill the other, they at the very least had to consider 'well, if he wins - what will happen next?' They are divine beings, some basic logic isn't too much to ask for I guess... Even if he turned them against each other, how would he do that and weren't they at all suspicious? I mean there they are watching over their creation several thousand years businesses like partnership and suddenly odium crashes by and they both run rampage at each other and are oblivious to the fact that just before that 'brief visit' happens everything was the same as it was several millennia? "Hey aona - long time no see, thought I just crash by to tell you that skai said your boots look ugly as damnation, absolutely no bad intentions on my behalf, we just haven't seen each other so long so don't mind me and go slap that skai in the face now" Yeah sounds about right... well those gods would be stupid af if you ask me and the fact that they even came up with the plan to kill adonalsium was probably a lucky guess - much more so that they actually achieved it lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleph-Naught he/him Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 10:36 AM, Angsos said: I'm pretty sure it's implied Odium had help... I've heard this mentioned a couple of times now but without reference to where it was implied, do you have a link to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 26 minutes ago, Aleph-Naught said: I've heard this mentioned a couple of times now but without reference to where it was implied, do you have a link to it? Pretty sure they're basing it off of this extremely tenuous WoB about Autonomy helping Odium. But given that it's paraphrased and that in any way can mean just about anything, it's really not a good WoB to base anything on. Quote Moridin997 (paraphrased) Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Uhh... Moridin997 (paraphrased) (sensing an incoming RAFO): In any way... Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that... Lisbon signing (Nov. 7, 2016) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 I think we're thinking of Shard-fights too Vin-style, maybe. It could be more like chess, say, at least unless a Shard kamikazes the other one. So Vin goes the kamikaze route (maybe something similar happened with Ambition) whereas Aona, Skai, and Tanavast all "played the game" and lost by the rules. [To use a potentially terrible analogy... Bear with me, and think (in terms of the Christian mythos/theory) of Jesus and sin as Shards. So Jesus, as God, would seem capable of just flash-destroying sin, no? But for some reason, He had to go through an elaborate process to accomplish the Atonement. (I don't literally mean "for some reason," as theologians have tried to figure this out for ages and made many proposals, going back to Paul's analysis and the clues in the Gospels to an extent.) So, two Shard-like/level beings "fight," and one wins, but this victory doesn't look like an episode of Dragonball Z so much as it looks like a fusion of a step-by-step game mixed with a logic puzzle, played out as much on a non-divine (read non-Spiritual) plane as otherwise.] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleph-Naught he/him Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, RShara said: Moridin997 (paraphrased) Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Uhh... Moridin997 (paraphrased) (sensing an incoming RAFO): In any way... Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that... Odium: *goes to Sel* Bavadin: *notices, does nothing* Odium: *splinters Devotion/Dominion* Bavadin: *shrugs* TOTALLY HELPED ODIUM OUT. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightblood Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 9:38 AM, Void89 said: Then Tanavast, that makes 3... it's just - why the heck? How can he be that much more powerful than 3 shards? Did he get the piece that was bigger than all the other ones? Just makes not a ton of sense to me. So he isn't more powerful then them collectively he just has an edge over them one on one. My theory is that since all of these shards had a host planet that they were pretty invested in. As a shard inhabits a planet then slowly the entire planet is saturated in its investure. One of the reasons why Harmony is kinda Stuck on Scadrial. We see that as Preservation gives a bit of itself up to create mankind on scadrial he weakens himself to Ruin. Because they both inhabited the planet they both lost investure seeping into the planet at a constant rate they stayed comparable in strength until Preservation sacrificed himself for Scadrial-kind. This is kinda what I think is happening with Odium vs. a World bound shard. With Aona and Skai he set them against eachother so he didn't have to fight both at once. But since he is just kinda flying around the cosmere unbound. He has more power than a world bound shard. If only by a little bit. Also he's a pretty sneaky guy and has found a method to "splinter" shards. It's implied that this isn't a commonly known tactic. (Ruin doesn't employ it when he kills preservation.) And I can only guess that cultivation didn't really care enough to help out Honor until after he died. Then she was like, "Oh, wait a minute, if he just killed Honor who was this tough guy, He's probably gonna try and kill me too." But any thought's on on-world vs. no world idea. Bc also now that Odium has been bound to braize for the time being, maybe it will even it out a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightedbishop he/him Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) I don’t have a theory on the broken one or if Odium was maimed previously. I think part of Rayse’s edge in destroying other Shards is the intent of his Shard. I haven’t heard a definitive explanation of what Odium means, but I am going to presume Wit is a reliable witness, and he named Odium as God’s hatred, seperated from His virtues. Rayse is extremely compatible with God’s own Hatred, and wants to remove any threat other Shards could pose to him. That sounds like an edge in seeking to take out the destroyed shards, none of which have the clear intent to protect (Preservation did. Ruin also had the intent to destroy...how convenient Rayse didn’t go after them and is scared of Harmony). Also, on the question of strength, it has been brought up that the other Shards may have been a bit weaker due to investing in their planets. Possible, but I agree a battle between Shards is not simply an issue of brute strength. Finally, just to clarify- Ruin and Preservation did not invest in an existing world. I believe they created one whole cloth with their power. And Rayse still avoided them. Which brings me back to thinking their Shardic intents would give them a serious edge against Rayse. Edited February 6, 2019 by knightedbishop Typo fix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted February 6, 2019 Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 10:38 AM, Void89 said: Then Tanavast, that makes 3... it's just - why the heck? How can he be that much more powerful than 3 shards? Did he get the piece that was bigger than all the other ones? Just makes not a ton of sense to me. It's actually four. Ambition was a casualty too. And all the Shards started out equal. As @Lightblood theorizes, staying in one place for too long causes a Shard to Invest in that place, which ties up a Shard's power. This likely played into how Odium was able to get the upper hand on his victims, and explains why he planned to avoid Investing on a planet himself. "Odium's plan always involved not getting stuck on [a planet]." However, he is now Invested on Braize and leaving would be "very difficult" and would "involve leaving behind some of his power". However, skill also comes into play. When Brandon was asked about a showdown between between Odium and Harmony (who is "vastly more powerful than Odium"), he compared it to a fight between Vin and Elend, which would obviously go to Vin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted February 9, 2019 Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 Was Ambition invested anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted February 9, 2019 Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Angsos said: Was Ambition invested anywhere? She was not, as far as we know. She was killed off in space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jruesch2 he/him Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 On 2/6/2019 at 11:05 AM, knightedbishop said: I haven’t heard a definitive explanation of what Odium means Odium is actually a word in English with Latin roots. It literally means hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace21 he/him Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 We know thay both Skai and Ambition fought back, I dont believe we have confirmation Odium was actually wounded but it makes sense. He is referred to as "scarred" or "the broken one" so some kind of wound could be implied, or it could refer to how he was forced to invest in Roshar/Braize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted February 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 On 2019-02-09 at 4:30 PM, RShara said: She was not, as far as we know. She was killed off in space. What does that even mean for a Shard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseSpren he/him Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said: What does that even mean for a Shard? Lots of investiture floating in space, but main "body" of shard is spiritual/cognitive. So nearest planets with life forms have troubles with wild investiture soaking from CR into PR. (see Shadows for Silence) Edit: bits of investiture will eventualy gain sentinence. (see "the Devil") Edited February 11, 2019 by NoiseSpren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 3 hours ago, NoiseSpren said: Edit: bits of investiture will eventualy gain sentinence. (see "the Devil") What is "the Devil"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted February 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 I think they probably mean ‘the Evil’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 15 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said: I think they probably mean ‘the Evil’. Oh, duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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