Where now for House Sadeas (and Rock's clansfolk)?

[+robardin]

In Oathbringer, we see Rock's immediate family - his wife and children - arriving at the Shattered Plains from the Horneater Peaks, in response to letters he sent them after entering Dalinar's service with Bridge Four.

But he originally came to the Shattered Plains with others of his clan, including his brothers, to challenge Sadeas for his Shardplate, with him and all their retinue (minus the brothers that Sadeas dishonorably killed, according to Rock's account) becoming the property of Sadeas in forfeit.

For his creative use of chull dung, he was sent to be a bridgeman. But the rest of his clansmen are still with Sadeas' camp, now under Ialai's control, right?

Earlier, Ialai had asked Elkohar to name Amaram as a regent highprince of Sadeas as the Torol's heir, his nephew (never named or seen), "is too young", while Highmarshal Amaram was one of the highest ranking and most respected figures in their princedom's forces. Which he did.

After Amaram and the forces of Sadeas "go Odium", with Amaram himself actually bonding an Unmade, we are only told that "Ialai left Urithiru in disgrace" as Shallan prepares for her imminent wedding.

I suppose Ialai could say (possibly even truthfully) that she and the rest of House Sadeas had no part in planning Amaram's treachery at Thaylen Fields, as the penalty for that kind of treason should be more severe than that. So that means Torol's nephew is now highprince, with no regent, right? Or does Jasnah's becoming the ruler of Alethkar set up a precedent for Ialai to simply name herself as the regent? And with a large part of their princedom's army gone(?), what's left to them?

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by robardin

[Quantus]

We dont know all the details (because Rock is hiding them from Bridge four for his own reasons) but when his wife asked about two of the others (Tifi and Sinaku'a) Rock said they where dead because "they raised weapons in vengeance."  The implication is that Rock is the only member of the entourage to have survived, and it took a literal (radiant) miracle for that to happen.

[Kon-Tiki]

Along these lines I've also wondered what happend to Hav, Kaladin's mentor. We know he became part of Amaram's personal guard by the time Shallan was sneaking around in Amaram's part of the Sadeas warcamp for the Ghostbloods, but what happened to him after, especially at Theylan Field? And, if he's in a position as prominent as he is currently in, why hasn't he sought out Kaladin?

Edited January 18, 2019 by Kon-Tiki

[Quantus]

8 minutes ago, Kon-Tiki said:

Along these lines I've also wondered what happend to Hav, Kaladin's mentor. We know he became part of Amaram's personal guard by the time Shallan was sneaking around in Amaram's part of the Sadeas warcamp for the Ghostbloods, but what happened to him after, especially at Theylan Field? And, if he's in a position as prominent as he is currently in, why hasn't he sought out Kaladin?

Good question, Im curious what came of him too, especailly given how badly things went for Amaram's forces in Theylan Field.  As a member of his personal guard there's a good chance he was present, but he was also in charge of HQ security, so he might have been left behind and/or guarding Ialai at the time. 

As far as why he didnt seek out Kaladin, I can see all kinds of reasons ranging from him simply not remembering one of many random recruits that he'd trained over the years and so not making the connection, on up to him remembering precisely who Kaladin was (branded coward that may or may not have been betrayed by their liege) and him not wanting to seek out such an awkward encounter. 

[Kon-Tiki]

Now that you mention it, Helaran trying to kill Amaram is probably directly what caused an opening in Amaram's guard...

[+robardin]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

We dont know all the details (because Rock is hiding them from Bridge four for his own reasons) but when his wife asked about two of the others (Tifi and Sinaku'a) Rock said they where dead because "they raised weapons in vengeance."  The implication is that Rock is the only member of the entourage to have survived, and it took a literal (radiant) miracle for that to happen.

I don't think Rock was even proto-Radiant as far back as when they challenged Sadeas; whatever is special about him that makes him able to see Syl all the time, I don't think it has to do with Surgebinding or using Stormlight (or he wouldn't have needed to be close to Kaladin to heal from his wounds in the attack on Bridge Four that lost the Honorblade).

But yes, I agree that whatever Rock was/is hiding from Bridge Four, it has to do with the nature and the circumstance of their challenge to Sadeas. He said that he came down from the Peaks with his nuatoma to make the challenge as his cook, where his nuatoma was his cousin ("My nuatoma would not come down to the lowlands without his own cook!"), which I find suspicious.

But the retinue was more than just Rock and his nuatoma and the other two "who raised weapons in vengeance" (if in fact, Rock himself was not the nuatoma, or some other role that was even more senior). As Rock related while milking the knobweed in The Way of Kings, "Some were made soldiers, others serve in his household. I fixed him one meal and he sent me to bridge crews."

So it stands to reason there are, or were, Rock's clansmen still in Sadeas' household or army, after he was sent to Bridge Four.

Edited January 18, 2019 by robardin

[Quantus]

34 minutes ago, robardin said:

I don't think Rock was even proto-Radiant as far back as when they challenged Sadeas; whatever is special about him that makes him able to see Syl all the time, I don't think it has to do with Surgebinding or using Stormlight (or he wouldn't have needed to be close to Kaladin to heal from his wounds in the attack on Bridge Four that lost the Honorblade).

I just meant that it took Kaladin for him to survive his incarceration under Sadeas, I wasnt trying to imply he was Radiant himself back then, sorry. 

34 minutes ago, robardin said:

But yes, I agree that whatever Rock was/is hiding from Bridge Four, it has to do with the nature and the circumstance of their challenge to Sadeas. He said that he came down from the Peaks with his nuatoma to make the challenge as his cook, where his nuatoma was his cousin ("My nuatoma would not come down to the lowlands without his own cook!"), which I find suspicious.

But the retinue was more than just Rock and his nuatoma and the other two "who raised weapons in vengeance" (if in fact, Rock himself was not the nuatoma, or some other role that was even more senior). As Rock related while milking the knobweed in The Way of Kings, "Some were made soldiers, others serve in his household. I fixed him one meal and he sent me to bridge crews."

So it stands to reason there are, or were, Rock's clansmen still in Sadeas' household or army, after he was sent to Bridge Four.

Fair point, and good catch with the WoK quote.