Futuresight? Shallan, Renarin and Illumination Surge

[Eris she/her]

So I have been reading the forums, interested in other people's theories and ideas when something struck my attention. 

Shallan has been proven to have a feeling when something isn't right, the only example I have at the moment is the Unmade in Uritherial. She has been shown to be influenced by the Unmade which is seen in her drawings. Further someone said, and could be wrong, that Shallan drew Ash without knowing who she was. Just drew the event (prove me right or wrong)

This could technically insinuate that Shallan is able to sense the future. 

Renarin on the other hand who we have talked a lot about sees the future in the form of mirrors. He also mentions to Shallan that he can feel the wrongness of the Unmade in Uritherial.

So my question is, could Illumination the surge of manipulating sound and creating (making a lie as Shallan puts it), along with intelligence, make it possible to see or sense the future through educated guesses and illumination? 

This is similar to the idea about Mr T and the diagram being only educated guesses after being given the ability to see. I probably didn't explain this well but I hope it is understandable. 

[Quantus he/him]

I think the distinction is that she can sense the Present, while the Future requires the inverted Voidbinding Surge (I say Inverted because we know they are qualitatively different, and the Voidbinding chart seems to depict this with one-half of the sigil being Inverted).  I think both allow you to peer into the Spiritual Realm to some extent, but for reasons relating to Roshar's specific segregation of Surges actually Looking Forward requires Voidbinding. 

As far as proving that she drew Shalash, it was in Ch 30 of WoR. She was idly sketching, and first drew a picture of some of the sailors from their sunken ship helping each other to shore; she was sure one of them was Yalb, but wrote it off as hopeful fancy.  Then she drew one she didnt understand at all, of a woman raising a hammer and chisel about to destroy the face of a statue, which is classic Shalash behavior (and I think was happening around that time per one of the Interludes). 

[Eris she/her]

10 hours ago, Quantus said:

I think the distinction is that she can sense the Present, while the Future requires the inverted Voidbinding Surge (I say Inverted because we know they are qualitatively different, and the Voidbinding chart seems to depict this with one-half of the sigil being Inverted).  I think both allow you to peer into the Spiritual Realm to some extent, but for reasons relating to Roshar's specific segregation of Surges actually Looking Forward requires Voidbinding. 

As far as proving that she drew Shalash, it was in Ch 30 of WoR. She was idly sketching, and first drew a picture of some of the sailors from their sunken ship helping each other to shore; she was sure one of them was Yalb, but wrote it off as hopeful fancy.  Then she drew one she didnt understand at all, of a woman raising a hammer and chisel about to destroy the face of a statue, which is classic Shalash behavior (and I think was happening around that time per one of the Interludes). 

I totally agree with this. Though I will add something said in a fan fan fiction... bare with me... that argued that the line "don't trust people who can tell the future" was a loss in translation with the actual "quote/saying" being "don't trust the events people see of the future" or something like that. The reason was because the future can change so the person wasn't lying, they were saying what they saw but it can come off as lying, thus untruthful because what they see can change due to human choice.  

[whattheHoid she/her]

Yeah, I think that Shallan may have an inverted Surge of Illumination perhaps from how popular her family has been with Unmade and Odium influence in general. I wouldn't be surprised if she is in a class of her own when compared to other Lightweavers. I took her surge as when she gets in her trance like state and starts to draw she can see or sense important people or events that could be pertinent to her or to Roshar itself, i.e. Oh look there's a Herald! That might not be good! Oh no! The true last Desolation!

[Quantus he/him]

12 hours ago, Eris said:

I totally agree with this. Though I will add something said in a fan fan fiction... bare with me... that argued that the line "don't trust people who can tell the future" was a loss in translation with the actual "quote/saying" being "don't trust the events people see of the future" or something like that. The reason was because the future can change so the person wasn't lying, they were saying what they saw but it can come off as lying, thus untruthful because what they see can change due to human choice.  

I dont really think so, if only because Hoid was saying it, and he followed it up specifically to say that he was including himself in the list of people you shouldnt Trust, which is a disturbingly common message from him.  Though I suppose his actual choice of words were "be wary of anyone who claims to be able to see the future" which is a bit less absolute than "Dont Trust." 

 

10 hours ago, whattheHoid said:

Yeah, I think that Shallan may have an inverted Surge of Illumination perhaps from how popular her family has been with Unmade and Odium influence in general. I wouldn't be surprised if she is in a class of her own when compared to other Lightweavers. I took her surge as when she gets in her trance like state and starts to draw she can see or sense important people or events that could be pertinent to her or to Roshar itself, i.e. Oh look there's a Herald! That might not be good! Oh no! The true last Desolation!

Pretty sure it has to either be Shallan or Renarin but not both, since they are very different with renarin getting none of the Illusion magic that Shallan is mastering.  And Renarin's the one with the atypical spren for his order, so I definitely think it is indeed him.

[whattheHoid she/her]

Oh Renarin, I have no doubt he is special in regards to his spren and surges. But I can't get this niggling feeling that Shallan had something special about at least one of her surges. I mean why has her family been the interest of Odium? Perhaps because he could see the future and her future Radiance and connection to the Kholin's? Perhaps I'm wrong, but as far as i know, when did she bond with Pattern; she was so young and at about time when there weren't many Surgebinders, at least that we know of. Perhaps Cultivation intervened? I dunno, I suppose we'll know more when we see more Lightweavers. Maybe we'll see Vathah or someone.