+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 In Honor of the recent WoB confirming that Hoid has in fact ingested a lerasium bead and is now a Mistborn, I think it's time to cook up some interesting battles. So here's a summary of Hoid's power set (spoilered below, based mainly on WoBs, no new info here): Spoiler Yolish Lightweaving (he can tell stories with cool special effects, can do other undisclosed things) Has Taldain sand (can detect the use of Investiture) Is the 2nd oldest being in the Cosmere, and probably knows more about the Cosmere and Investiture than any other non-shardic being in the Cosmere (other than Frost who is the oldest) Is virtually indestructible, but is afraid of Nightblood (wouldn't even pick him up) Has access to Fortune (known ability lets him be at the right place at the right time without knowing why he should there, given the recent Hemalurgy table, this is probably access to Destiny) Has enough breaths for at least the 2nd Heightening but let's just say that he has enough for 3rd Heightening so he has life sense as well because I don't see Hoid passing that ability up (increased perception, has perfect pitch, can intuitively detect non-drab lifeforms) Is a Full Mistborn Is a Knight Radiant Lightweaver (has the surges of Illumination and Transformation, has a Sprenblade and possibly Shardplate) He is limited in the fact that he can't intentionally hurt anyone, but he can intentionally allow someone to get hurt, sounds like enough wiggle room for the cleverest being in the Cosmere to figure out how to make any fight a fight to the finish, without necessarily doing the finishing himself. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to try and find a worthy opponent for Hoid, and to give this a narrative twist, say that he's dipped into one too many pots of investiture and our boy Hoid is starting to loose hold of his sanity. He thinks that to save the world he must first destroy it (he could potentially use the loophole that he is not directly hurting anyone he is just destroying the planet that just unfortunately happens to have a lot of people on it). I have a couple of different potential battle arenas in mind, I'll just list the first for now, but might edit in a couple more later. Feel free to have the fight take place wherever you want with whatever initial conditions that you think would make for the most interesting battle. Battle Arena 1: Aluminum Cage Match One of the Rosharn Gas giants, lets say Vev, has had the outer 100 miles of atmosphere Soulcast into a shell of Aluminum, and the rest of the gaseous/liquid hydrgen and helium have been soulcast into a habitable atmosphere similar to Roshar's. The outer 100 ft of the metallic hydrogen shell around the planets core has been soulcast to a garnet with a perfect crystalline structure and infused with Stormlight, descending from this shell to the surface of the planets core are tapering columns of similarly infused garnet, spaced at frequent but irregular intervals. The planets core is roughly .25 cosmere standard radii, and is a continuous primarily metallic metropolis like Cybertron or Corsucant. A large geosynchronous satellite intermittently Collects the rays from Roshar's sun and focuses them onto the outer shell of the Aluminum Cage Match planet, giving the planet a stable ambient temperature of 70 degrees Fahrenheit. It requires direct shardic intervention to enter or exit the Aluminum cage planet, and lets just say that Hoid and the other combatant(s) are transported to the surface by a shard and can only leave when the other side has been vanquished. For this arena victory by Hoid is complete and sustained immobilization or the death of his opponent(s) and lets say the same thing goes for the other side too, complete and sustained immobilization of Hoid or Hoid's death would constitute victory for your champion(s). You can pick up to two abilities to spike into your champion(s), but if you grant two hemalurgically stolen abilities to a single champion, there might be the real possibility that Hoid can control them with Duralimun boosted emotional allomancy. Also you can make 2 modifications to the Arena to give your champion(s) easier access to their preferred form of Investiture. Your champion, or each of your champions can have up to 2 unkeyed metal minds of any type that you want to specify. Let's say for this arena that Hoid has a bag of flour, one vial of Taldain sand and an unkeyed medallion that can store and retrieve mental sped (F-Zinc) 4
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 A few issues with the scenario: Humans need at least four Hemalurgic spikes to be controlled according to the Set's research. Almost nothing poses a threat to Hoid's life. Nightblood might and the Shards definitely do. So pretty much it would have to be someone capable of using Nightblood and capable of catching Hoid. I'd go with a Dustbringer with double steel from spikes. You would need Division to counter his soul casting and double steel plus Abrasion would make you literally into the Flash. Pretty much that's the only way I see a blow being landed. Oh.. and you'd need Nightblood (which is a maybe at best for killing him). Personally I think Hoid is Fullborn rather than Mistborn, so even this wouldn't be enough, but it's the best I can come up with. There's also the fact that he might be able to realmaticly transfer at will now without a perpendicularity. Shallan is able to partially enter the Cognitive realm when she soulcasts so all bets are off on what Hoid could do with that. I think the Aluminum shell around the arena would weigh more than the original planet btw. I'm sure there's someone here that's already doing the math though so we will see. TLDR: Hoid v anyone isn't a fair fight. He's the Mary Sue of this story. 1
HSuperLee Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Honestly, in most battle setups, I'd say Hoid survives until his opponent dies of old age. Now, until recently, I'd say one of the few matchups that would give him trouble would be end of Oathbringer Szeth. However, now that Hoid is a well and proper Radiant with access to soulcasting, I'm not sure Szeth could actually stop him. While before that I would have said Szeth might be a good enough flier to keep up with an mobility Hoid has, with soulcasting Hoid would not only never run out of metals, but could throw enough walls in front of Szeth to slow him down and stay ahead until both run out of stormlight. Combined with the fact that whatever fortune trick he's using might give Hoid pseudo-atium, I don't think most people slower than a steel twinborn could touch him, and even then, if he's a fullborn and they don't have Nightblood, he'll come back from whatever they hit him with. Edit: I also just thought I'd throw my two cents in here, but I don't think Nightblood can actually kill Hoid. I think people tend to overestimate it's power quite often. Edited January 7, 2019 by HSuperLee
Illian Tear he/him Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 Raistlin Majere? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raistlin_Majere
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 37 minutes ago, HSuperLee said: Edit: I also just thought I'd throw my two cents in here, but I don't think Nightblood can actually kill Hoid. I think people tend to overestimate it's power quite often. I doubt that it could either. Just because Hoid thinks there's a chance that it could, doesn't mean that it definitely could.
Illian Tear he/him Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 Spoiler He was the youngest mage ever to take the Test. Which was pass or die. He's cursed to see everything as time affects it, making everything rot, crumble, ect. He studied for over 4 years to become the 2nd most powerful mage to ever live. Time traveled to study under the most powerful mage, then absorbed all his knowledge, power, and health. Jumped foward in time bringing allong 2 other people. TIMELINE 1: Went directly in "hell" itself to challenge the Goddess of Darkness/evil. Lured her into the real world in the present. Obliterated her, taking her power for himself. Then went on to kill all 20 other gods and absorbing all energy/power from the universe. TIMELINE 2: His brother stops him from luring the Goddess into the world. Then sacrificed himself to protect the world by letting himself be constantly killed everyday by that Goddess. 20 years later his nephew gets him out of "hell" and ends up helping to save the world from the being that created those gods. And finally died in peace. 30-40 years later the gods themselves bring him back to life to help him restore the timeline and lead them back to the world that was stolen from them. There's a reason why the fandom asks "How many times are they going to have to revive Raistlin?"
Mailnaise she/her Posted January 7, 2019 Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) Honestly if someone had really good mobility, such as an Edgedancer, and was somehow able to know what Hoid would try next, and therefore was a Seer Misting, they could probably hold their own for a little while, at least. You'd also need to have a really great (set of?) weapon(s), Nightblood, like others have said, maybe? People are right, though. This is less of a thread saying who might beat Hoid, and more, who would live against Hoid the longest. *shrug* Still way cool though. Edited January 7, 2019 by Mailnaise
Marethyu316 Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 One problem with using Nightblood is that you have to have access to a large well of invesiture, or he becomes more liability than benefit. You'd have to find a way to sneak up on Hoid, so that you didn't need to draw Nightblood until the last second, but even then, I'm guessing Hoid would know and be able to evade long enough for you to have to sheath Nightblood.
Quantus he/him Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 Assuming my theory that Dragons eat Investiture directly the way Dragon-Bugs (aka Larkin) do, then I'd give Frost decent Odds against Hoid, with a lot of the advantage of Nightblood but not the danger. Otherwise I'd spike Mental Capacity into a Larkin and toss them into the Dor, the resulting Kaiju would be a pretty good challenge as it would be able to suck out most of whatever Hoid could bring to the table. Just for fun I'd give her a pair of Medallions that allow for Compounding Fortune. 1
StormblessedSurvivor he/him Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] What would happen if Hoid held Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Uh, Hoid would not do that. Hoid would stay very far away. Stormlightning [PENDING REVIEW] Not even hold it?? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] He would stay really far away. There are very few things in the Cosmere that Hoid is afraid of, and Nightblood is one of them. Stormlightning [PENDING REVIEW] I thought he'd be afraid of the blade end. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] So let's just say if very very very few things in the Cosmere had a chance of destroying you, you wouldn't even pick one up. You'd try to be in a different room entirely. R'Shara and Sunbird and JoyBlu [PENDING REVIEW] *Whispering about Nightblood being able to destroy Hoid* Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] I didn't say, I said theoretically. I said "had a chance of", I did not confirm. Hoid doesn't know. But there's a chance, and so he is not going to risk that. source Well Nightblood does consume the user's Investiture, and no matter how much Hoid has, Nightblood would eventually consume it. And even if Hoid is not directly hurting someone, it causes him pain to even think about hurting anybody.
+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him Posted January 9, 2019 Author Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) Ok, nobody said it so I guess I'm going to have to suggest it. Hoid vs. The Sovereign Hoid has a proven track record of enjoying dishing out pain to Kelsier, Kelsier is still technically a cognitive Shadow stapled into a body, so let's just assume that this is still the case and that Hoid could take out Kelsier without feeling any pain. The Sovereign has held the powers of a shard (and has the expanded consciousness that entails), spent some time experimenting with his buddy Spook to figure out the intricacies of Hemalurgy, and is quite possibly a hemalurgically enabled full feruchemist (or could get the full power set with the Southern Scadrial tech that he helped pioneer). Let's say for the sake of this battle that Kelsier 2.0 has the Bands of Mourning, has one hemalurgic spike that staples him into a physical realm body, and one additional hemalurgic spike that grants him the swiftness of a Ryshadium...just kidding, that grants him a nahel bond with an Edgedancer spren. What do you guys think would happen? Edited January 9, 2019 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine 1
HSuperLee Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 Okay. I just need to say, with the whole, "Nightblood eats investiture, therefore he can destroy anything that uses investiture to live." That is a flawed argument. People eat meat. Dinosaurs were made of meat. I dare you to go beat a dinosaur by eating it. And for the people saying Nightblood would never be "full" just because we've never seen him be "full", we've also never seen a coinshot break the sound barrier while flying, so should we assume they can do it? 1
The Young Pyromancer he/him Posted January 10, 2019 Posted January 10, 2019 Brandon has said that Nightblood could not drink a shardpool, he would get full first, so there is that. And even if Nightblood could eat all of hoid’s investiture, he still could only consume it so fast. AND even then, could Kelsier wield Nightblood without killing him self? And even then, I doubt kelsier has trained extensively in swordplay.
Jace21 he/him Posted January 12, 2019 Posted January 12, 2019 Give Szeth the Bands. Nightblood with f-steel is probably the best bit. Hoid almost certainly doesnt have a Blade or Plate yet so he would be relying on his innate invulnerabity. If Nightblood cant kill him I doubt any non-Shard could.
TequilaJack Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 Nicholas Cage. He could not lose....ever! 1
old man moomba he/him Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 *cough cough* Rand al'Thor *cough cough* 1
goody153 Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 Rashek or one of the competent and full-born's who don't play around has the chance to beat Hoid especially if they have hemalurgic knowledge(hemalurgy can kill hoid for sure). Maybe Dalinar cause whatever the storm his situation is as Odium ran away from him. If we are talking about works outside Sanderson then the comic stables like superman(the normal overpowered version of him yaknow those who can reverse the spin of a planet) or thanos with 6 infinity stones(you can't beat somebody who is too fast or invulnerable or worse who can completely manipulate reality). For novels people like Simon from Travelers Gate Trilogy (people literally can't see him move .. he is that fast to the point that he is still moving when time is slowed to a crawl) or Rand'AlThor around the final conflict could beat hoid ezpz. 1
+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him Posted January 13, 2019 Author Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, TequilaJack said: Nicholas Cage. He could not lose....ever! Sounds probably, here's some footage of him taking out Autonomy (spoilered below) Spoiler @Dr. Dapper and @goody153, Rand 'al Thor's a pretty safe bet, especially if he fought Hoid while he still had the male Choedan Kal key, but really if he hit Hoid with Baelfire, it's pretty hard to imagine Hoid healing himself out of that one (seems pretty much like destruction on all 3 realms to me). Yeah Goody153, I think the fullborns Rashek and Kelsier 2.0 (the Sovereign) have the best chance, especially if they were hemalurgically enhanced a bit. 1
goody153 Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 Nicholas cage definitely owns even Adonalsium. How is this even a discussion. Hell even The Rock or Vin Diesel does it as well ezpz lemon squeezy 9 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said: Sounds probably, here's some footage of him taking out Autonomy (spoilered below) Reveal hidden contents @Dr. Dapper and @goody153, Rand 'al Thor's a pretty safe bet, especially if he fought Hoid while he still had the male Choedan Kal key, but really if he hit Hoid with Baelfire, it's pretty hard to imagine Hoid healing himself out of that one (seems pretty much like destruction on all 3 realms to me). Yeah Goody153, I think the fullborns Rashek and Kelsier 2.0 (the Sovereign) have the best chance, especially if they were hemalurgically enhanced a bit. I actually meant Rand'AlThor on the final battle when he faced Shai'tan Spoiler It was basically reality manipulation. You can't get better powers than that Normal Rand'AlThor the dragon reborn depends on the distance of where the fight started. Yeah i mean Rashek/Kelsier can win actually because of hemalurgy not just because of the fullborn potential. They can spike hoid in combat which kinda kills hoid at the right timing 1
Jace21 he/him Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 6 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said: Yeah Goody153, I think the fullborns Rashek and Kelsier 2.0 (the Sovereign) have the best chance, especially if they were hemalurgically enhanced a bit. I dont think that would necessarily be needed thinking about it. His confirmed combat abilities are just soulcasting, lightweaving and being mistborn. The issue is just killing him, which needs (probably) hemalurgy or nightblood. So if we assume either Nightblood and/or knowledge+spike then a fullborn, more skilled mist/twinborn, prepared feruchemist, Elantrian or some orders of KR later in oaths could probably do it. Once he hits 4 oaths or more of his power is clarified, things change.
The Young Pyromancer he/him Posted January 13, 2019 Posted January 13, 2019 And he can't really kill anyone. Though he has at least one more power we don't know about, because he worldhops, and we still don't understand how his healing works.
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