Vedel Endpage

[+Child of Hodor]

Just as one Dova theory is kind of shot down a new one rises from the ashes like a phoenix! This time with even flimsier evidence. https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/79188-dova/

I am starting a new thread because I don't now that she's Dova but I think she may appear in OB. Vedel is an odd choice as one of the 4 endpage Heralds in OB.  The other three either show up multiple times in OB (Ash, Jezrien) or they are identified and discussed at length (Ishar). I would think Battar would be the choice since she is ID'd and they want 2 male and 2 female heralds. I wonder if Vedel made an appearance incognito. 

The end page order is Ishar, Ash, Vedel, Jezrien. This also happens to be the order in which these Heralds are heard from in the present in OB. 

Ishar - Chapter 24 he sends his angry letter as Tezim. Chapter 64 he is positively ID'd as Ishar by the Stormfather.

Ash - I-8 Mem she pretends to be a new washerwoman to destroy Mraize's painting. Mraize identifies her and tells her he knows where Taln is. I-8 is after Chapter 87. So after Ishar is heard from and ID'd. 

Vedel - ???? Only mention of Vedel is Ch. 47 Jasnah is reading Taln's rantings "Vedel will train your surgeons" The interesting thing is that Taravangian ID's Dova as Battar in Ch. 121  pages 1204-1205 in the e-book. This is RIGHT BEFORE:

Jezrien - Ch. 121 pages 1205 -1206 Jezrien is killed by Moash. Jezrien does make another appearance in flashback as Ahu in Ch. 88, but he is not ID'd as a herald then. 

The end page order corresponds to the order the Heralds are ID'd in present day, except for Vedel the Herald with the divine attribute Healing. Unless Dova, the ardent killing people in the Taravangian's secret hospital, is really Vedel and not Battar. Now is this circumstantial? Is this reaching? Of course it is. But I could still be right storm it! 

If she is not Dova, did she appear in the book another way? 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Child of Hodor

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I have wondered about this too. But we have not really seen any female Herald except Ash, so Brandon might just have decided the female Herald through throwing a dice or something.

Also, had he gone with the Heralds who actually appear in book, Ishar would have been swapped for Nale.

Edit: It is of course possible that Vedel appears in the book. I just don’t know who she might be, but for now I will keep on with the belief that Dova is Battar.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Toaster Retribution

[Subvisual Haze]

I assumed they just represented the 4 patron Heralds of the most elaborated on Radiant Orders so far (including the first 3 books and also Lift's short story).

Kaladin + Bridge 4 = Windrunners = Jezrien

Shallan = Lightweaver = Ash

Dalinar = Bondsmith = Ishar

Lift = Edgedancer = Vedel

[ScavellTane]

Its the maid. Instead of caring for the lost and forgotten she cares for a king.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

6 hours ago, ScavellTane said:

Its the maid. Instead of caring for the lost and forgotten she cares for a king.

Which maid?

[+Child of Hodor]

13 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Which maid?

In WoK Shallan is in her room trying to get the stolen soulcaster to work and she hears noise outside and fears that it's Jasnah. She opens her door and sees an old woman who says she is a maid. Shallan says the maids were told not to clean in Jasnah's rooms and the maid says she didn't know. Shallan tells the maid to go apologize to Jasnah and uses the opportunity to search Jasnah's room since the maid already disturbed things in there. 

17 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I assumed they just represented the 4 patron Heralds of the most elaborated on Radiant Orders so far (including the first 3 books and also Lift's short story).

Kaladin + Bridge 4 = Windrunners = Jezrien

Shallan = Lightweaver = Ash

Dalinar = Bondsmith = Ishar

Lift = Edgedancer = Vedel

You and your sensible explanations. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Child of Hodor

[Subvisual Haze]

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

You and your sensible explanations. 

Sensible!?  Vedel is the patron of surgeons.  The surgeon school is in Kharbranth.  Kaladin's dad likely met Kaladin's mom while studying surgery in Kharbrath.  Kaladin's mom has darkeyes, but culturally acts like a lighteyes in all respects and receives detailed letters from her family about advances in fabrian technology.  Conclusion: Vedel is Kaladin's Grandmother!

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

4 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

In WoK Shallan is in her room trying to get the stolen soulcaster to work and she hears noise outside and fears that it's Jasnah. She opens her door and sees an old woman who says she is a maid. Shallan says the maids were told not to clean in Jasnah's rooms and the maid says she didn't know. Shallan tells the maid to go apologize to Jasnah and uses the opportunity to search Jasnah's room since the maid already disturbed things in there. 

I see. I doubt this is Vedel though. I don’t think Vedel looks particularly old, based off the art we have for her. If this is a Herald (and it could be, the behavior is suspicious) I woyld guess Battar/Dova. Or possibly a Ghostblood spy rummaging through Jasnahs stuff. 

[+Child of Hodor]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I see. I doubt this is Vedel though. I don’t think Vedel looks particularly old, based off the art we have for her. If this is a Herald (and it could be, the behavior is suspicious) I woyld guess Battar/Dova. Or possibly a Ghostblood spy rummaging through Jasnahs stuff. 

Agreed, it would have been Battar/Dova if anyone. 

[Reckless Reader]

I think another notable point about that picture that supports the theory that it's Vedel is that she's surrounded by lifespren. Little glowing green specks. Each order has a corresponding kind of mindless spren, and I would bet you ten bucks that lifespren correspond with the Edgedancers.

Also, her crown thing has the Edgedancer glyph on it.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Ookla the Fused

[NoiseSpren he/him]

So Rushu is Vedel. Ok

[MountainKing]

On 11/13/2018 at 8:02 AM, Subvisual Haze said:

Sensible!?  Vedel is the patron of surgeons.  The surgeon school is in Kharbranth.  Kaladin's dad likely met Kaladin's mom while studying surgery in Kharbrath.  Kaladin's mom has darkeyes, but culturally acts like a lighteyes in all respects and receives detailed letters from her family about advances in fabrian technology.  Conclusion: Vedel is Kaladin's Grandmother!

What's this about Kaladin's mom getting letters on fabriel technology?

Edited December 11, 2018 by MountainKing

[Calderis he/him]

On 11/13/2018 at 6:02 AM, Subvisual Haze said:

Kaladin's dad likely met Kaladin's mom while studying surgery in Kharbrath. 

Lirin never studied in Kharbranth. He was trained by a man in Alethkar who had trained there. 

He stole the spheres to fund an Education for Kaladin that he had to get secondhand. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Calderis

[Subvisual Haze]

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

Lirin never studied in Kharbranth. He was trained by a man in Alethkar who had trained there. 

He stole the spheres to fund an Education for Kaladin that he had to get secondhand. 

He's definitely lying about the secondhand education.  That may have been part of it, but he almost certainly went to the surgeon school (and likely got kicked out for hooking up with a woman above his station).  Lirin acts and performs like an actual surgeon, not a civil war era sawbones for hire.  His knowledge is extensive and he even has an anatomy textbook that Kaladin studies from.  The fact Lirin is able to predict highstorms (as a hobby!) indicates that he has a much broader and classical education than would be obtained from a simple country apprenticeship.

[Calderis he/him]

Lirin is a very self driven character. I think you're underestimating what people who truly desire to learn can accomplish. And frankly, I don't understand why he'd lie about where he learned. 

[Subvisual Haze]

On 11/13/2018 at 0:00 AM, ScavellTane said:

Its the maid. Instead of caring for the lost and forgotten she cares for a king.

Dang, I think you're right on this.  I just hit on this idea and searched to see if anyone else was thinking this way.  Focusing on Maben is a bit of a stretch, but I kind of like this theory.

Specifically I think Taravangian's inconspicuous maid Maben is the Herald Vedel incognito.  

Vedel was the Herald of surgeons and healers.  She instructed new healers during desolations and the surgeon school in Kharbranth likely was founded by or dedicated to her.  Her Divine Attributes are Loving and Healing.  Her order of The Edgedancers were noted (in epigraphs and their oaths) to pay special care to the forgotten and powerless of society.

It would be an interesting subversion/madness for Vedel to go from the instructor and expert healer of the many people into a simple nursemaid for a single King.  She is still Loving and Healing (she's quite kind and gentle, patting Taravangian's shoulder when he's throwing a brilliant-jerk temper tantrum), but in a very different manner.

I think it would also interestingly match with this WOB https://wob.coppermind.net/events/367/#e11589

Quote

R'Shara [PENDING REVIEW]
A long time ago, where you said that Pailiah was the elderly ardent in Kharbranth that Shallan saw, is that right?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Yes? If you say I said that, then I did.

Questioner 2 [PENDING REVIEW]
Does that mean it is still true?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Let's just say there is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian.

R'Shara [PENDING REVIEW]
It was in a signed book but we never got a picture of it.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
There is a Herald in close proximity to Taravangian. I'm not being sneaky about that.

R'Shara [PENDING REVIEW]
Is there more than one?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
There have been in the past, but there is only one that you would call influencing him right now. But there have been others in the past.

Brandon might have been playing word games here (as he often likes to do in his answers).  Taravangian may currently have both a Herald that is influencing him in Dova (Battar, or possibly a different Herald), and a different Herald in close (physical) proximity in Maben (Vedel).