"Real Life" Allomancy or How the second Trilogy might work

[Shaggai]

But a soother could take control of the fat truckers/inquisitors because of the amount of spikes they have and cause complete chaos.

And about hemalurgic decay, why didn't Vin's earring lose its charge from it not being worn for a long time. Maybe spikes keep their charge after someone has first used them.

There's a minimum charge that spikes can reach. After that, they don't lose anything more.

[Pathfinder]

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd now I am picturing Inquisitors wearing trucker hats, with beer guts, and wife beaters complete with cigar out of the corner of their mouths as they go "Yous guys!"

[Edgedancer]

But a soother could take control of the fat truckers/inquisitors because of the amount of spikes they have and cause complete chaos.

And about hemalurgic decay, why didn't Vin's earring lose its charge from it not being worn for a long time. Maybe spikes keep their charge after someone has first used them.

Not if we give the truck driving Inquisitors Aluminium hats.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Edgedancer

[Cstryon]

So considering ethical issues here. My wife pointed out, Scadrians aren't human the way Earthlings are. The Scadrians are parts Ruin and Preservation. So they might see spiking someone to save someone was "ruin this to preserve this." which is exactly what their world is.

[Fallen Rope]

I don't think morals are that different for Scadrian's because they are part Ruin and Preservation. I don't think the lord ruler is good for preserving society for 1000 years.

Mist fabricals might make hemalurgy a bit pointless since they probably don't require killing people. I'm now thinking there could be mist fabrical inquistors or robots. This could explain the mistborn in the second trilogy.

[Pathfinder]

Also, although I am not 100 percent sure, I do not recall ruin or preservation mentioned as religions in the alloy of law trilogy. There is harmony, and there is the church of the survivor, and trell as well as other un-named religions but it didn't sound at least like Ruin and Preservation were a dominant religion if they still existed at all. 

[Fallen Rope]

The terris religion worshipped Preservation as a God and it would be in the words of founding so some people might follow it. But it wouldn't allow hemalurgy as they don't like ruin.

[happyman]

Also, although I am not 100 percent sure, I do not recall ruin or preservation mentioned as religions in the alloy of law trilogy. There is harmony, and there is the church of the survivor, and trell as well as other un-named religions but it didn't sound at least like Ruin and Preservation were a dominant religion if they still existed at all. 

 

Harmony is the religion that teaches about Ruin and Preservation.  It teaches that Sazed picked up the powers of both, and is now their god, using both together to work for the agency of humanity.

 

This isn't really surprising; the Terris religion had been completely wiped from humanity before Sazed's ascension.  The only access humans would have had to it is the words of founding and the Kandra.  And I'm pretty sure that the Kandra know from direct experience exactly what Sazed is.

[Pathfinder]

Harmony is the religion that teaches about Ruin and Preservation.  It teaches that Sazed picked up the powers of both, and is now their god, using both together to work for the agency of humanity.

 

This isn't really surprising; the Terris religion had been completely wiped from humanity before Sazed's ascension.  The only access humans would have had to it is the words of founding and the Kandra.  And I'm pretty sure that the Kandra know from direct experience exactly what Sazed is.

It is? I do not recall that ever being stated in Alloy of Law. If I missed it, then sweet learned something new, it has been awhile since I've read it, but I thought the tenants of the religion didn't actually go into such detail. Otherwise why don't the worshipers refer to Sazed as well Sazed? Christians call Jesus by his name. Buddists know of Sidhartha Gutarma (I know I totally butchered that name), and so on. But again, I admit I could have missed it, and if that is the case, then I tip my hat to you.

 

Now for a totally other subject that struck me while I was walking in the city. So the Scadrians we know of, only have allomancy/feruchemy in their body, and otherwise are technologically advancing the same as we did. Steam, leading to electric and so on. Meanwhile there is the mysterious Scadrians that know how to power machines with allomancy and or feruchemy. So now I wonder, when those two cultures meet, will one form of technology become dominant and make the other obsolete? Like beta max and vhs? Will they combine and hybridize much like how the usb jack and hdmi lets you connect all your peripherals. If one dominates, which do you all think it will be? Technology as we know it, or the allomantic/feruchemal machines? If they combine, how could it manifest? Hearing aids for the feruchemist who is storing hearing? Feruchemal machines AS hearing aids for the elderly? etc.

[Fallen Rope]

I'm thinking that the 3rd trilogy might have inquisitor/terminators which can use the allomancy machines. Probably will not happen but it could

[Edgedancer]

I'm thinking that the 3rd trilogy might have inquisitor/terminators which can use the allomancy machines. Probably will not happen but it could

Give them an Aluminium mind Fabrial... thingy and you have an android that´s also a real boy on a spiritual basis. Absolutly perfect for your idea. They could also be used as robo clones, without any Hemalurgy involved. Magical green robo clones for everyone.  

 

That is unless you only want to replace your own body, in which case you should pay someone to spike every attribute out of your body and then rearrange them in a special Fabrial-body-construct.... thingy.

[Pathfinder]

I'm thinking that the 3rd trilogy might have inquisitor/terminators which can use the allomancy machines. Probably will not happen but it could

To which the terminator says "Lavistaing the Hastaing of the baby"

[Fallen Rope]

Toping of the Secret Terminator design. 

Reinforce body with Allomantic pewter.

Metal forcefield using Allomantic steel.

Create eyes using Allomantic steel.

Secondary eyes using Allomantic tin.

Allomantic steel and Allomantic iron on hands.

Feruchemical copper hard drive.

Zinc compounding to speed up processors.

Allomantic zinc and Allomantic brass to create immobilising fear in target.

Allomantic bendalloy to create time bubbles.

Feruchemical bendalloy power supply.

gold compounding repair system.

acadmium grenades to freeze people.

For extra fun awaken with "destroy evil" and quickly worldhop to watch from a distance.

[Pathfinder]

Also a thought I had, which might have come up earlier, is how much MORE important seekers will be in later trilogies. In the Lord Ruler's age, mistborn and mistings were very rare, but with all the mistings, feruchemists, and twin born we have seen I could totally see "tracker" seekers being common place. Which also leads to another thought, does anyone know if a seeker burning bronze would detect a feruchemist storing or tapping their reserves?

[kinxer]

I suppose it would depend on what Bronze actually detects. If it detects any accessed Investiture, then I'd imagine it would, but if it just detects Preservation's specific "type" of Investiture, it probably wouldn't. Of course, I may just be way out of my depth with talking about Investiture, but it seems that way to me.

Edited September 1, 2014 by kinxer

[BlackYeti]

Which also leads to another thought, does anyone know if a seeker burning bronze would detect a feruchemist storing or tapping their reserves?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

We asked if it was possible to use bronze to Seek Feruchemy. He said it could be possible. If it were to happen, it was very hard, because the Inquisitors would desperately like to be able to find Feruchemists that way, and it was implied they had not discovered this power. So, it is a freaking hard technique to learn, if possible at all.

Source

 

 

I suppose it would depend on what Bronze actually detects. If it detects any accesses Investiture, then I'd imagine it would, but if it just detects Preservation's specific "type" of Investiture, it probably wouldn't. Of course, I may just be way out of my depth with talking about Investiture, but it seems that way to me.

 

QUESTION

Could a Seeker who was properly trained and experienced detect AonDor or Awakening? Similarly, does a Coppercloud block an Awakener's life sense?

 BRANDON SANDERSON

A Seeker could sense somebody else using magic not native Scadrial. RAFO on the Coppercloud blocking similar magic.

Source

 

Bronze can clearly detect magic powered by Investiture not of Preservation. My guess is that the problem with detecting Feruchemy is that Feruchemy is end-neutral, it could be that it's only really good at detecting end-positive systems.

Edited August 30, 2014 by BlackYeti

[Screwloose]

I could see coinshots/ lurchers being hit with health and safety regulations, such as only being able to use authorised anchors for jumping, rather than coins and metal parts of buildings.

 

Also, on the subject of Hemalurgy "donations", could Hemalurgic spikes be used be used as Life support/ organ replacement? For example a spike through the heart doesn't kill the recipient, instead changing their physiology so could it possibly fix a heart defect in the process, being used instead of a pacemaker?

[Shaggai]

I could see coinshots/ lurchers being hit with health and safety regulations, such as only being able to use authorised anchors for jumping, rather than coins and metal parts of buildings.

 

Also, on the subject of Hemalurgy "donations", could Hemalurgic spikes be used be used as Life support/ organ replacement? For example a spike through the heart doesn't kill the recipient, instead changing their physiology so could it possibly fix a heart defect in the process, being used instead of a pacemaker?

...

 

You just managed to come up with an original, non-obvious use of Hemalurgy that saves lives without requiring deaths (besides the original one used to create the spike, but I'm sure we've got spikes around somewhere that could be reused). You are officially the best person on this forum. Congratulations.

[Cstryon]

"I can't come to work, I'm sick *cough cough*. "

"I thought you're a bloodmaker!"

"That's why I'm sick!"

"So you won't miss a day for a long time after this?"

"*sigh * Yes... "

[Redbird]

In AoL, the mistings and feruchemists (cant remember the name for one ability) are rarer than in Mistborn, so say it is in anther 100-200 years, how rare will allomancy and feruchemy be then? Or will they have found the genes affecting these abilities and manipulated them?

Edited September 27, 2014 by Redbird3000

[Pathfinder]

In AoL, the mistings and feruchemists (cant remember the name for one ability) are rarer than in Mistborn, so say it is on anther 100-200 years, how rare will allomancy and feruchemy be then? Or will they have found the genes affecting these abilities and manipulated them?

Ferring. Well considering that in the modern day trilogy there will be a mistborn serial killer, and a whole SWAT team of mistings to hunt him/her, I personally believe they are not as rare as everyone thinks, or they do figure out a way. It is certainly implied in AoL that there is something to the bloodlines. But that is my own conjecture. 

[Moogle]

Everyone on Scadrial should end up being a Misting/Mistborn at some point, I'd think. By the time sci-fi Scadrial is a thing, they should have the knowledge to distill lerasium from the Preservation-mist. And the Set is certainly trying to get a Mistborn via breeding programs... sounds like they succeed.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Moogle

[Pathfinder]

Everyone on Scadrial should end up being a Misting/Mistborn at some point, I'd think. By the time sci-fi Scadrial is a thing, they should have the knowledge to distill lerasium from the Preservation-mist. And the Set is certainly trying to get a Mistborn via breeding programs... sounds like they succeed.

I never thought about distilling lerasium from the mist before. Would Sazed be ok with that? They would basically be leaching him of his power right?

[Moogle]

I never thought about distilling lerasium from the mist before. Would Sazed be ok with that? They would basically be leaching him of his power right?

 

I can't imagine Sazed would miss the power too much, given how much he has. Plus, doesn't most of the Investiture return to him once burned? I don't know if any of it stays stuck to their spiritweb or not. Problem is, if people distill a lot of lerasium without distilling atium, Sazed'd have to find a way to get rid of the excess. Also, Sazed might have issues with people suddenly becoming super powerful and upsetting the balance of power... though, he has a hard time acting (or will), so maybe that isn't enough for him to stop sending the mists?

 

WoB on the distill bit for those curious:

Q. Can I ask you about the body of a Shard in the physical realm? About the different states of matter, what determines the state of matter that they are in? Because I’ve read the relevant sections carefully, haven’t noticed much about temperature difference.

A. The idea for me working on this is that they transcend, they permeate everything. They permeate all life on all the realms. And that there are manifestations of them that leak out, and it’s kind of like they appear there in the various states. When you say that you’ve got the gas, you’ve got the liquid, you’ve got the solid: but you’ve also got inside of you, inside of that plant, like they’re everywhere. And so what determines it? In my head it’s just like when some of that power permeates, some of it distils, just like water. There’s some water in the air, there’s some that freezes: that’s temperature. But it’s not always temperature whether it’s in the air, or whether it’s falling. Imagine a spiritual version of humidity, that is influenced by what’s happening on the Spiritual Realm and the Cognitive, and that’s what you get.

Q. Because you’ve talked about alloying the god metals, I was wondering whether you would be able to melt them down as you would with normal metals.

A. If you could distil the god metal: you could distil it out of the mist, that’s theoretically possible.

(source)

Edited September 26, 2014 by Moogle

[Pathfinder]

I can't imagine Sazed would miss the power too much, given how much he has. Plus, doesn't most of the Investiture return to him once burned? I don't know if any of it stays stuck to their spiritweb or not. Problem is, if people distill a lot of lerasium without distilling atium, Sazed'd have to find a way to get rid of the excess. Also, Sazed might have issues with people suddenly becoming super powerful and upsetting the balance of power... though, he has a hard time acting (or will), so maybe that isn't enough for him to stop sending the mists?

 

WoB on the distill bit for those curious:

I agree and disagree if that makes sense lol. On one hand I agree I couldn't see Sazed having a problem with it if it goes to helping others or furthering the society, but on the other hand I disagree because Scadrial isn't Sazed's only concern. The greater cosmere is as well. If Sazed lets his power get leached, what is there to stop a possibly released Odium, or Odium analogue down the line from popping up and shattering a weakened Sazed? Unless that is to form his own knights radiant in a way which could have been very well what happened with Honor. I am now picturing the knights inquisitors lol. Also just a thought I had that I felt was worth mentioning but wasn't sure if it was worth a fresh thread, but in Alcatraz, it is brought up continually that things only individuals can do is magic, but thing anyone can do is science. By that definition hemalurgy isn't magic, it is science. Which would make sense why the southern Scadrielans could make machines from it. Has anyone expanded on the scientific perspective of hemalurgy?