What Hoid Is Really Doing With Adonalsium

[Worldhopper From Yolen]

Remember how Hoid was talking to Dalinar in WoK about Adonalsium and ripping a man apart and putting him back together? I don't have the book right now, so I can't find the exact quote, but Hoid mentioned how if you took a man apart and put him back together, he might not be the same. What if that is what Hoid is trying to do? We know that Hoid was a part of the group that had plotted to kill Adonasium because he could have been a Shard, so why would Hoid be rebuilding Adonalsium? Answer: he's not. He's trying to merge all of the shards into something has the power of Adonalsium but is different. Remember Harmony(Sazed)? He holds Ruin and Preservation, but he is totally different from either of them because he is bound by both of their principles. The new Adonalsium could be the same way. I wrote this thing up at like midnight, so if you see errors, feel free to correct me.

[IllNsickly he/him]

I used to think that as well, but more and more I feel like Hoid is trying to remove or redirect the  influence of specific Shards in the event that someone does Reforge Adonalsium.

[+Invocation]

A lot of people have thought this, even pre-Gibletish conversation, but there is always another secret.

[garlick]

I used to think that but I think he has another game. I personally think brandon was being sneaky there. When he talked about reforming the shards would it the same as the original. I think brandon was using what happened to andolisium as a chance to put the idea in your head that putting the peices back together could give you something new. Honor was shattered if his power was brought back together and reformed would it still be the shard of honor. Or would you end up with something like Unity.

Mistborn spoilers

Spoiler

We saw harmony made by combining 2 shards so I doubt Stormlight will have the same ending with 2 or 3 shards forming. Makes more sense to reform a shattered shard.

 

[RShara she/her]

Have you read the Traveler exerpt? It really makes me think Hoid is trying to bring someone back from the Beyond.

[Fanghur Rahl he/him]

45 minutes ago, RShara said:

Have you read the Traveler exerpt? It really makes me think Hoid is trying to bring someone back from the Beyond.

Hasn’t Brandon said that that is flat-out impossible? Or at least that that’s his current position on the matter regardless of what Sazed said?

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Hasn’t Brandon said that that is flat-out impossible? Or at least that that’s his current position on the matter regardless of what Sazed said?

Just because we know that doesn't mean Hoid accepts it. 

I'm adverse to the idea myself, but I can see why people think so. 

[Fanghur Rahl he/him]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Just because we know that doesn't mean Hoid accepts it. 

I'm adverse to the idea myself, but I can see why people think so. 

Well, actually, I guess one might argue that Shai kinda-maybe-sorta brought Ashravan back from the Beyond... kinda. Depending how you wanna look at it. Though personally I think it’s probably more akin to cloning from the movie 6th Day than true resurrection.

[Calderis he/him]

57 minutes ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Well, actually, I guess one might argue that Shai kinda-maybe-sorta brought Ashravan back from the Beyond... kinda. Depending how you wanna look at it. Though personally I think it’s probably more akin to cloning from the movie 6th Day than true resurrection.

It's definitely a clone. The original Ashravan is gone. 

[Fanghur Rahl he/him]

15 minutes ago, Calderis said:

It's definitely a clone. The original Ashravan is gone. 

I know, but the philosophical question remains: if two things are identical, and one is destroyed to make the second, are they really different in any meaningful sense? I personally think yes, at least as far as people and consciousness are concerned, but there’s certainly precedent in fiction for people disagreeing. So who knows? Maybe Hoid would consider something analogous to what Shai did as being equivalent to true resurrection. I have no idea how that would help him since he doesn’t have any Aonic magics as far as we know, but who knows? When Hoid is concerned, I don’t think we can make any assumptions.

[garlick]

He wasn't dead was he. I thought it was more coma/brain damage situation. So he was never truly dead. The brain being the control center for the body but it was damaged so the soul couldn't use the body. Soul stamps by nature you need to truly know a person to make to valid soul stamp that would take. She had to know him to make a stamp that wouldn't change who he was. Then she tweaked the event to damage something other then his head tricking his soul/body to reconnect. I would argue since his body never died he was trapped in the CR while his body lived he wasn't dead but his connection to his body was severed from the brain damage. Shai fixed that connection.

[Calderis he/him]

12 minutes ago, garlick said:

He wasn't dead was he. I thought it was more coma/brain damage situation. So he was never truly dead. The brain being the control center for the body but it was damaged so the soul couldn't use the body. Soul stamps by nature you need to truly know a person to make to valid soul stamp that would take. She had to know him to make a stamp that wouldn't change who he was. Then she tweaked the event to damage something other then his head tricking his soul/body to reconnect. I would argue since his body never died he was trapped in the CR while his body lived he wasn't dead but his connection to his body was severed from the brain damage. Shai fixed that connection.

That's just it though. The Resealers healed his body. There was no brain damage. There was no physical reason for his coma. 

Obviously this is opinion, but what I believe is that they healed his body after Ashravan went beyond. The reason that she needed to study him so closely was two parts. Firstly, and her main concern, was accuracy. He needed to be seemingly indistinguishable from the original Ashravan. Secondly, and the realmatic reason, is that his Spiritual Aspect remained. She still needed to match his history plausibly for the stamp to take. 

I am fully of the opinion that what Shai did was use a stamp to create a new cognitive aspect in place of the reality of Ashravan that went into the Beyond. He continues as a Cognitive construct that will fade if the stamp is not reapplied. 

[Fanghur Rahl he/him]

As I understand it, the resealers basically for all intents and purposes had to clone his brain. Getting an arrow through your brain would pretty much be invariably fatal (unless you’re either ludicrously lucky or are Shallan/Veil, though I honestly think that Brandon put that in there purely for the lulz). So yeah, he would have been dead, and as Calderis said, his soul would have moved Beyond.

[Feruchemist he/him]

3 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

As I understand it, the resealers basically for all intents and purposes had to clone his brain. Getting an arrow through your brain would pretty much be invariably fatal (unless you’re either ludicrously lucky or are Shallan/Veil, though I honestly think that Brandon put that in there purely for the lulz). So yeah, he would have been dead, and as Calderis said, his soul would have moved Beyond.

Unless, of course, Ashravan took a path similar to that of Kelsier, trapping himself in the Cognitive Realm...

But that seems highly unlikely.

[Fanghur Rahl he/him]

2 hours ago, Feruchemist said:

Unless, of course, Ashravan took a path similar to that of Kelsier, trapping himself in the Cognitive Realm...

But that seems highly unlikely.

Technically Kelsier didn't do that himself, Preservation had to nullify the Beyond's pull on him, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to resist much longer.