Confirmed Shards

[bleedscarlet he/him]

This might be a cosmere newb question, but have the shards on the wiki been confirmed to be original shards from Adonalsium?

 

I ask for this question: is it possible one of the 16 shards is actually Harmony, and then it later split further into Ruin and Preservation? And in kind, could/would it be possible to splinter further?

 

Someone stop me if I'm following flawed logic or canon please, but this realization dawned on me while driving to work this morning, and I can't stop wondering if I have been thinking about the shards all wrong.

[Argent he/him]

We've never asked whether the Shards we've seen are the same as the ones that spawned from Adonalsium, but we've never had a reason to doubt that. Plus, Harmony is not quite like the other Shards - Ruin and Preservation continue to exist separately, and Sazed would drop them (instead of Harmony) if he were to die - do look for a WoB on this, though, because there is a chance that I got this last bit completely backwards. 

[bleedscarlet he/him]

It makes me wonder, what is Adonalsium, that it could splinter into 16 "idea" fragments?

 

Ruin, Preservation, Cultivation, Honor, Hate, all of them. What would they make if you added them together?

 

I suspect in some form the 16 shards perhaps combined to form omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence. Everything. Adonalsium plainly put, just is.

 

But if that were the case, then each of the 16 shards by association could also split, perhaps.

 

And eventually we could break adonalsium into 200 million tiny fragments that represent every concept of being, finitely and specifically, also perhaps.

 

Something of a stretch, I think, but it sounded plausible in my head when it occurred to me.

 

I will start looking for a WoB and e-mail him if I can't find anything. Part of me is hoping there is no answer, because I am immensely fond of the mystery of not knowing yet, but my curiosity won't allow me to just let it lie and not at least look around first.

Edited May 8, 2014 by bleedscarlet

[Moogle]

We've never asked whether the Shards we've seen are the same as the ones that spawned from Adonalsium, but we've never had a reason to doubt that. Plus, Harmony is not quite like the other Shards - Ruin and Preservation continue to exist separately, and Sazed would drop them (instead of Harmony) if he were to die - do look for a WoB on this, though, because there is a chance that I got this last bit completely backwards.

 

Yeah, you got it backwards. The WoB in question says that Sazed would drop Harmony if he died.

Thanatos17901 ()

Thanks so much for all your writing, Way of Kings is the best book I've read in the last decade.

If Sazed were to die, would he drop the shards Ruin and Preservation, or would he drop the shard Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. The shards are now intermingled, and would take effort to split apart. He would drop Harmony. (This is what Odium feared would happen, by the way.)

(source)

 

Ruin, Preservation, Cultivation, Honor, Hate, all of them. What would they make if you added them together?

 

Pithy answer: Adonalsium.

 

As to the sixteen concepts Adonalsium split into, we do know that Adonalsium could have been shattered into different concepts. They didn't have to be Ruin/Preservation/etc.

 

But if that were the case, then each of the 16 shards by association could also split, perhaps.

 

And eventually we could break adonalsium into 200 million tiny fragments that represent every concept of being, finitely and specifically, also perhaps.

 

This is basically what honorspren/highspren/Cryptics/flamespren/lifespren are, I imagine. Each spren is a little piece of a Shard.

 

Similarly, every Seon seems to have a different 'concept' at its heart for each Aon.

 

Each Command seems to express an idea. Indeed, 'destroy evil' could probably seen as similar to an Aon (not surprising, since they're both focuses).

 

This leads me to the conclusion that each Returned's Divine Breath has its own special concept (Command), much like the Aon at the heart of each Seon. I guess that would explain how the priests name each Returned so well. I guess the Hallandren belief that each Returned comes back to life because of a divine Command isn't so far-fetched. In fact, it's probably exactly correct.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Moogle

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

I have these saved on a personal blog. I'd say we can also add that the Shard of Dragonsteel is Adonalsium himself, as he is not shattered at the time of the books. Don't know what is there now though. 

 

World __________________Shards ____________________Books
Ashyn _________________Unknown ___________________The Silence Divine
Braize __________________Odium ____________________The Stormlight Archive
Nalthis__________________ Endowment _______________Warbreaker, Nightblood
Roshar _______________Honor, Cultivation______________ The Stormlight Archive
Scadrial __________Preservation, Ruin, Harmony*_______ Mistborn series (including Mistborn Adventures)
Sel __________________Devotion, Dominion _____________Elantris & sequels, The Emperor's Soul
Taldain ___________Unnamed Shard held by Bavadin ______White Sand
Yolen __________________Unknown___________________ Dragonsteel
Unknown_______________Unknown ____________________Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell
Unknown _______________Unknown ____________________Sixth of the Dusk

 

This is a quote about some of that. 

INTERVIEW: Feb 12th, 2013
AMOL Signing Report - Mason Wheeler (Paraphrased) 

 

MASON WHEELER
You've said that Splintering a shard is essentially the same thing as the shattering of Adonalsium, repeated on a smaller scale.

 

 BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah. 

 

MASON WHEELER
And a while ago, someone asked you if Splintering was permanent or reversible, and you said that it can be reversed. 

 

BRANDON SANDERSON
Yeah.

 

[GreyPilgrim he/him]

It makes me wonder, what is Adonalsium, that it could splinter into 16 "idea" fragments?

A theory that's been around for a while, and one that I've long been fond of is the Shardic Lens Theory. The main idea is that because of the way Adonalsium broke, every Shard filters a certain part of the original power. The power the Shard filters corresponds to its intent. Since Adonalsium seems to be sort of a force of everything, of creation, it could in theory have broken in a different way, causing different ideas to be filtered or refracted. This kind of goes along with what Moogle was saying, that Adonalsium could have Splintered into different Shards than the ones it did.

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

Unknown_______________Unknown ____________________Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell

Unknown _______________Unknown ____________________Sixth of the Dusk

Here's those unknowns filled in.

Threnody_______________N/A_______________SfSitFoH

First of the Sun_______________N/A_______________Sixth of the Dusk

Neither Threnody nor First of the Sun are any of the ten core Shardworlds, so they have no Shard. Also, we have a few more rows to add to your list.

Empty Space_______________Unnamed Shard_______________Unknown

Unknown_______________Unnamed Shard that just wants to survive_______________Unknown

Now, that last one, the Shard that just wants to survive, may or may not be one of the unknown shards in one of the other rows.

Edited May 8, 2014 by PorridgeBrick

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Here's those unknowns filled in.

Threnody_______________N/A_______________SfSitFoH

First of the Sun_______________N/A_______________Sixth of the Dusk

Neither Threnody nor First of the Sun are any of the ten core Shardworlds, so they have no Shard. Also, we have a few more rows to add to your list.

Empty Space_______________Unnamed Shard_______________Unknown

Unknown_______________Unnamed Shard that just wants to survive_______________Unknown

Now, that last one, the Shard that just wants to survive, may or may not be one of the unknown shards in one of the other rows.

Thanks! Made this months ago, it could use the update. 

[Aether he/him]

There is also the List in my Signature, complete with sources and references. I try to keep it up to date with new books and WoBs. I've copy/pasted it here, though be warned, this particular post will not be updated, so follow the link for the most up-to-date information:

 

"Just to provide further elaboration on the matter (though honestly mostly just as an excuse to make another List), the eight known Shardworlds are:

• Sel, the planet of Elantris and the Emperor's Soul. Shards: the shattered Devotion and Dominion
• Scadrial, the planet of the Mistborn trilogies and the Alloy of Law series. Shards: Previously Preservation and Ruin, now Harmony.
• Nalthis, the planet of Warbreaker. Shard: Endowment.
• Roshar, the planet of the Stormlight Archive series. Shards: Cultivation and the shattered Honour.
• Braise, the home planet of Odium in also located in the Greater Roshar System. Shard: Odium (duh!)
• Ashyn, a planet in the Greater Roshar Solar System and the planet of the unpublished Silence Divine. No Shard¹.
• Taldain, the planet of the unpublished White Sand trilogy. Shard(s): the unknown shard of Bavadin. It has been confirmed that this is the only Shard² there.
• Yolen, the (presumed) origin planet of Adonalsium and humanity itself, and the place of the unpublished Dragonsteel and the Liar of Partinel. (Current) Shard(s): unknown.

Lesser Shardworlds:

• Threnody³, the planet of Shadows for Silence in the Forest of Hell. Shard(s): No Shards⁴, though perhaps a powerful splinter or something to the effect.
• First of the Sun⁵, the planet of the unpublished short-story Sixth of the Dusk. Shard(s): Unknown, but likely just a splinter."

Edited May 12, 2014 by Aether

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

Ashyn, a planet in the Greater Roshar Solar System and the planet of the unpublished Silence Divine. No Shard

We should probably get more confirmation on this however, as Brandon already confused The Silence Divine up with Shadows for Silence once before.

Also, another detail I forgot to add to my list: the Empty Space shard is not the same shard as the shard that just wants to survive.

[GreyPilgrim he/him]

I don't think Brandon confused anything with that quote, PorridgeBrick. I highly doubt that there is a Shard on Ashyn. If there were a Shard, it would most likely be caught up in the same conflict as Honor, Cultivation, and Odium, and thus far we have no reason there is another factor to it. I have speculated before that Ashyn is where the Tranquiline Halls were, and that the humans there were for some reason left there when the rest were driven to Roshar. I know the arguments for Braize being the Halls, but they have never convinced me.

[Kadrok she/her]

 

There is also the List in my Signature, complete with sources and references. I try to keep it up to date with new books and WoBs. I've copy/pasted it here, though be warned, this particular post will not be updated, so follow the link for the most up-to-date information:

 

"Just to provide further elaboration on the matter (though honestly mostly just as an excuse to make another List)

 

 

Wow, I didn't realise how detailed your lists were... cool! Upvote!

 

On a related note, I was just looking through the massive theory list and I noted that the you've attributed A-Malatium/F-Aluminium identity vampirism only to Skaa, when I technically submitted the idea in another topic 14 days earlier than him (I note in Skaa's post that we probably arrived at the idea independently). I know it seems petty, but any chance I could get my name on that theory too?

 

EDIT: Huh, I mention in that post that that great minds think alike business had happened before... I wonder what that was about?

 

EDIT 2: Also I reside in Queensland, Australia if you felt like adding me to your Sharder geotracker.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Kadrok

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

I don't think Brandon confused anything with that quote, PorridgeBrick. I highly doubt that there is a Shard on Ashyn. If there were a Shard, it would most likely be caught up in the same conflict as Honor, Cultivation, and Odium, and thus far we have no reason there is another factor to it. I have speculated before that Ashyn is where the Tranquiline Halls were, and that the humans there were for some reason left there when the rest were driven to Roshar. I know the arguments for Braize being the Halls, but they have never convinced me.

 

Hmm, true. I guess I've been automatically assuming that it would have a Shard, since it's likely a major Shardworld, and never thought about how strange that many Shards together would be. And it's not like we don't have precedent for magic systems without a Shard, since Sizth of the Dusk has the same deal with magical organisms as the source of power. I suppose you (and myself) have convinced me there. Still strongly convinced Braize is the Halls, but we'll have to agree to disagree there.

[skaa he/him]

Wow, I didn't realise how detailed your lists were... cool! Upvote!

 

On a related note, I was just looking through the massive theory list and I noted that the you've attributed A-Malatium/F-Aluminium identity vampirism only to Skaa, when I technically submitted the idea in another topic 14 days earlier than him (I note in Skaa's post that we probably arrived at the idea independently). I know it seems petty, but any chance I could get my name on that theory too?

 

The theory list was made by Tempus. I guess you could post your request in his Theory Index thread so that he will see it.

 

 

EDIT: Huh, I mention in that post that that great minds think alike business had happened before... I wonder what that was about?

 

That would be this, wherein I realized that I wasn't the first to come up with the Aluminum Identity = Gold Shadows theory. Also, apparently you mentioned Malatium in the very same post that I replied to days before I wrote my Malatium/Aluminum Twinborn theory. I remember coming up with my Malatium theory after pondering about why Vin couldn't touch Rashek's Malatium shadows, but it's very possible that your post was also a (subconscious) factor.

 

Edit: Fixed link.

Edited May 13, 2014 by skaa

[Aether he/him]

Wow, I didn't realise how detailed your lists were... cool! Upvote!

Thanks!

On a related note, I was just looking through the massive theory list and I noted that the you've attributed A-Malatium/F-Aluminium identity vampirism only to Skaa, when I technically submitted the idea in another topic 14 days earlier than him (I note in Skaa's post that we probably arrived at the idea independently). I know it seems petty, but any chance I could get my name on that theory too?

That particular List isn't mine, but Tempus'. He asked me to add it to my Signature to help spread the word. I've poked him about it, so you'll get your due credit =)

EDIT 2: Also I reside in Queensland, Australia if you felt like adding me to your Sharder geotracker.

Going to add you now. The work is going somewhat slowly as I am technically still on a hiatus for the exams, but I should have most of the active Sharders there within a few weeks.

 

EDIT: Slightly edited my Signature to better show who's Lists are whose.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Aether

[Tempus]

WHO SUMMONS ME?
 
So yes, creator and curator of the Theory Index is I. As far as it goes, I generally only consider a theory to be formally stated if it's the titular post in it's own topic. Why? Two reasons. The first is that theories stated in the middle of another thread are often contextual - they rely on reading the rest of the thread to make sense of many of the comments, and a properly stated theory really should stand alone and be properly sourced. 
 
The second, and much more important reason is, I'm not crazy - there are 730+ topics on the Mistborn boards, and it took me four days and about twelvish hours of work to get them all kind of sorted and onto the Index.
 
There are 13,821 posts right now on the Mistborn boards. Even accounting for topics I could dismiss entirely, I'd be looking at over 200 hours of work to sort em all. And I'd probably get less theories and poorer theories in general than I would cruising the 730+ topics (with a few notable exceptions). Stormlight Archive has 45000+ posts ^{kill me now}
 
So, is there a solution? Why YES! The Theory Index is in fact stored on the coppermind wiki, and I welcome and encourage everyone to add to it or correct it (in an orderly fashion). Just click the little edit button near the top of the page. Clear it with skaa if you like, and add your name to his theory as joint authorship (Arrr!), or if you prefer, make a separate entry linking to your own theory just for you! No reason two people can't make the same theory (trust me, they already do). Personally, I would do that myself. If you have any other hidden theories knocking around, feel free to put them on as well. Alternatively, if you post them into a new topic on the boards, I'll add them to the list as part of my usual curation duties.

 

---

 

You may also be interested to note Kadrok, that out of the Mistborn, Elantris, and Warbreaker boards, you have posted five theories that I've found and recorded, which garnered 19 total points, putting your Theorist Quality at 6th place currently, behind Kurk, Skaa, Me, Phantom, and Aether. Behind you are six other notables, and approximately 133 other theorists. This is bound to change, of course, as I cruise the Cosmere and Stormlight boards, but it is still quite impressive!                   I.... like statistics boards. >.>

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

I don't think Brandon confused anything with that quote, PorridgeBrick. I highly doubt that there is a Shard on Ashyn. If there were a Shard, it would most likely be caught up in the same conflict as Honor, Cultivation, and Odium, and thus far we have no reason there is another factor to it. I have speculated before that Ashyn is where the Tranquiline Halls were, and that the humans there were for some reason left there when the rest were driven to Roshar. I know the arguments for Braize being the Halls, but they have never convinced me.

 

But if the Shard on Ashyn was the Shard who just wants to hide and survive, it could perhaps hide in the same system as Odium as long as it kept its head down.  I have a theory that the disease-based magic of that world could play into that.  A magic system that encourages people to get sick could easily double as a kind of magical population control, and it keeps the focus of scientific and technological development on life sciences rather than physical.  It almost seems like a magic system perfectly tailored towards keeping a world's population from growing too large while keeping their attention away from things like expanding outwards past their own planet.  (I believe Ashyn is supposed to be pretty far along on the technology scale, similar to our own world, but obviously it doesn't look like they're sending out probes to the nearby planets in their star system).

Edited May 14, 2014 by ROSHtaFARian2.0

[WeiryWriter he/him]

But if the Shard on Ashyn was the Shard who just wants to hide and survive, it could perhaps hide in the same system as Odium as long as it kept its head down.  I have a theory that the disease-based magic of that world could play into that.  A magic system that encourages people to get sick could easily double as a kind of magical population control, and it keeps the focus of scientific and technological development on life sciences rather than physical.  It almost seems like a magic system perfectly tailored towards keeping a world's population from growing too large while keeping their attention away from things like expanding outwards past their own planet.  (I believe Ashyn is supposed to be pretty far along on the technology scale, similar to our own world, but obviously it doesn't look like they're sending out probes to the nearby planets in their star system).

 

There is no Shard on Ashyn though, the WoB is quite clear on that.  Believe me, I actually listened to the audio and it is obvious Brandon knew what he was talking about.  (Of course that doesn't mean there was never a Shard on Ashyn)

[Tempus]

Here's the WoB

 

Q:  Can you tell us which Shard is with [The Silence Divine]?

A:  This is a world that does not currently have a Shard.

 

Until that WoB in fact, there was significant evidence promoting the idea of a Shard on Ashyn. Given what we know of the planet and the magic system, it is still fairly likely there was a shard there, or that SOMETHING extra has invested itself. Best clue comes from this quote, about Threnody (the only shardless planet we have seen so far):

 

... It takes place on a planet called Threnody. There is no shard on that planet however. The magic is more something you interact with, not something you perform because there isn't a shard there.

 

From the readings of Silence Divine, magic is something you perform on Ashyn, strongly suggesting there is some sort of additional investiture. There are other clues, but I'm not really going to go over them. It's also possible he changed his mind, that it used to have a shard but when he sat down to plot it out decided that some other explanation was more appropriate.

 

 

And here's a random speculative theory for you: Each shard currently on Roshar was initially invested in one of the other planets in the Solar System. Cultivation on Ashyn, and Odium on Braise. Cultivating bacteria makes a lot of sense with the intent of cultivation, after all! This sounds kind of fun (but unlikely). I might develop this.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Tempus

[Kadrok she/her]

I'M BACK, AND I FOUND IT!!! For those stalking me and keeping score, this was the conversation I was talking about here when I mentioned I'd disappeared under my rock mid way through a conversation. Now that I remember where I was talking about this...

WHO SUMMONS ME?
 
So yes, creator and curator of the Theory Index is I. As far as it goes, I generally only consider a theory to be formally stated if it's the titular post in it's own topic. Why? Two reasons. The first is that theories stated in the middle of another thread are often contextual - they rely on reading the rest of the thread to make sense of many of the comments, and a properly stated theory really should stand alone and be properly sourced. 
 
The second, and much more important reason is, I'm not crazy - there are 730+ topics on the Mistborn boards, and it took me four days and about twelvish hours of work to get them all kind of sorted and onto the Index.

Okay, fair enough; that makes sense. I'll need to remember to postulate in through medium of starting topics.

You may also be interested to note Kadrok, that out of the Mistborn, Elantris, and Warbreaker boards, you have posted five theories that I've found and recorded, which garnered 19 total points, putting your Theorist Quality at 6th place currently, behind Kurk, Skaa, Me, Phantom, and Aether. Behind you are six other notables, and approximately 133 other theorists. This is bound to change, of course, as I cruise the Cosmere and Stormlight boards, but it is still quite impressive!                   I.... like statistics boards. >.>

Ooooh, cool. Thanks Tempus! And I'm in distinguished company too! I wonder what my standing is since I disappeared under the rock...

Edited August 25, 2014 by Kadrok

[Dawnshard]

There is another shard that is not on a planet. Was that one mentioned because as it is not attached to a world that makes it harder to catalog.