What if no one is Odium's champion, now or ever?

[Ripheus23]

That would be an interesting way to defeat him: get him to agree to the contest of champions, appoint a champion for Honor, and then surprise, no one accepts Odium's mantle and he loses by default?

[+Invocation]

But would he actually lose by default? Dalinar worded the challenge as him facing the champion, so Odium could wait until Dalinar was dead or choose a champion way in the future, much as Sadeas did when Kaladin jumped in with his challenge after the duel with Adolin's enemies.

[Ripheus23]

I guess there'd have to be a time constraint or something.

[Weltall]

This is where Dalinar is at a serious disadvantage: He has only a vague idea about the nature of the Shards and the agreement between Honor and Odium that he's currently trying to use to fight against Odium, while the latter has all the details and all the time in the world. Witness how Dalinar almost released whatever agreement is binding Odium by accident when the two first spoke. I doubt that a no-show by Team Odium at a battle of champions would actually constitute a loss, more likely the battle wouldn't count as starting until someone took the position.

I also doubt that Odium would allow his next candidate for champion to refuse the position and remain breathing. Dalinar's a special case where he's bonded to Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow and had Cultivation chessmastering things behind the scenes. That's one man and he absolutely didn't want the job; Odium has the entire Fused population who literally owe their continued existence to him so I rather doubt he's going to have trouble convincing one of them to take up the position if he absolutely needs to. He's also got the current population of singers and those humans willing to serve him to tap for the job, a la Amaram hosting Yelig-nar. Good luck convincing every single one of them to tell the Shard of Hatred 'no' when he asks pretty please if you'll be his champion, or else he'll make you a Cognitive Shadow when you die so he can do horrible things to you for all eternity.

[Scion of the Mists]

16 hours ago, Weltall said:

This is where Dalinar is at a serious disadvantage: He has only a vague idea about the nature of the Shards and the agreement between Honor and Odium that he's currently trying to use to fight against Odium, while the latter has all the details and all the time in the world. Witness how Dalinar almost released whatever agreement is binding Odium by accident when the two first spoke. I doubt that a no-show by Team Odium at a battle of champions would actually constitute a loss, more likely the battle wouldn't count as starting until someone took the position.

I agree that Dalinar (and really all of humanity) is at a huge disadvantage going up against a Shard.  

However, Dalinar did not almost free Odium.  Odium states that Intent matters in these types of things - he was just messing with Dalinar.  

Quote

"So do it. Leave us alone. Go away."

Odium turned to him so sharply that Dalinar jumped. "Is that," Odium said quietly, "an offer to release me from my bonds, coming from the man holding the remnants of Honor's name and power?"

Dalinar stammered. Idiot. You're not some raw recruit. Pull yourself together. "No," he said firmly.

"Ah, all right then," Odium said. He smiled, a twinkle in his eyes. "Oh, don't fret so. These things must be done properly. I will go if you release me, but only if you do it by Intent."

Edited November 1, 2018 by Scion of the Mists

[Weltall]

4 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

However, Dalinar did not almost free Odium.  Odium states that Intent matters in these types of things - he was just messing with Dalinar.  

The point is more that Dalinar could have released Odium and didn't realize it, and that even if intent matters it doesn't mean that Dalinar needs to fully understand the implications in order to have it. The followup to that conversation is Dalinar having to ask what would happen if he did say the words with the right Intent. The implication is obvious, that he could do it without having a full grasp of the consequences and it would still count.

The bigger picture being, Dalinar is at a massive informational disadvantage and the potential consequences are enormous. Odium is toying with Dalinar now but that's likely to change following how badly surprised he was when things didn't go according to plan at Thaylen City.

[Scion of the Mists]

@Weltall Yeah, I agree with everything you're saying - I just really like that scene and felt obliged to point it out.  

[Lockheart]

So... I havent been following the forum much... I dont know if its been mentioned... 

 

Kaladin's little brother, Oroden, will be Odium's champion. (In my humble opinion of course)

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

10 hours ago, Lockheart said:

So... I havent been following the forum much... I dont know if its been mentioned... 

 

Kaladin's little brother, Oroden, will be Odium's champion. (In my humble opinion of course)

The idea has been raised before, and I think it has its merits. Good points have been raised against it as well, such as the fact that Oroden is too young to agree to anything.