Dalinar´s thoughts on Galivar´s assassination

[Edgedancer he/him]

This has been on my mind for a while now and it has never been discussed, from what I have seen. At the end of WoR, when he and some others fight Szeth, Dalinar finds peace because he comes to the conclussion that he couldn´t have saved his brother even if he was in his top form at the time of Galivar´s death.

However, he never factors in that not only he would have had plate but that could have fought together with his brother. Galivar on his own put up a pretty good fight, (Szeth used up his "final bit of Stormlight" and might have been cut down by Galivar, if he didn´t lash down the balcony, on which he landed by chance.) if we factor in a younger Blackthorne with a full set of Shard and that Szeth most likely couldn´t have healed Shardblade cuts, simply because he belived it wasn´t possible, I think they would have stand a chance. I´m not saying that they definetly would have won but I don´t think the possibility should be that completly dismissed.

I can see why Dalinar doesn´t think of some of this points, given how deadly Szeth appears to them, but I kind of want the opinion of others wheter you think they would have stand a chance or not.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Edgedancer

[Aether he/him]

I suspect that no one has the exact details of  the fight between Szeth and Gavilar, as Jasnah was the only one who actually saw anything of it (and she only saw the very last moments of it). And Dalinar hardly faced Szeth alone this time around. Szeth was able to give Adolin - quite possibly the greatest duellist in recent time - a decent bashing in front of both Dalinar and an entire army. Given what Dalinar witnessed - and the lack of specific details of the fight six years prior - Dalinar had no reason to suspect that his presence would have made a difference.

[hoser he/him]

I think this makes total sense. 

This has been on my mind for a while now and it has never been discussed, from what I have seen. At the end of WoR, when he and some others fight Szeth, Dalinar finds peace because he comes to the conclussion that he couldn´t have saved his brother even if he was in his top form at the time of Galivar´s death.

However, he never factors in that not only he would have had plate but that could have fought together with his brother. Galivar on his own put up a pretty good fight, (Szeth used up his "final bit of Stormlight" and might have been cut down by Galivar, if he didn´t lash down the balcony, on which he landed by chance.) if we factor in a younger Blackthorne with a full set of Shard and that Szeth most likely couldn´t have healed Shardblade cuts, simply because he belived it wasn´t possible, I think they would have stand a chance. I´m not saying that they definetly would have won but I don´t think the possibility should be that completly dismissed.

I can see why Dalinar doesn´t think of some of this points, given how deadly Szeth appears to them, but I kind of want the opinion of others wheter you think they would have stand a chance or not.

Consider what would have happened if Dalinar had come at the end of the fight and been the only one to walk out on the balcony.  He would have survived the fall easily in intact Shardplate. 

 

Dalinar reaches the conclusion when Szeth has beaten two unShardplated fighters.  An armored Dalinar and armored Adolin would have put up much more of a fight.  

 

For character development it seems like a good conclusion now that he has changed, as guilt about the past doesn't seem that helpful. 

[Aleksiel]

Dalinar wouldn't have had time to put on his Plate at the feast his brother died, so his conclusion that he wouldn't have been able to save Gavilar is true. Dalinar would have ended up lashed and killed.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Moogle]

I can see why Dalinar doesn´t think of some of this points, given how deadly Szeth appears to them, but I kind of want the opinion of others wheter you think they would have stand a chance or not.

 

I think Dalinar and Gavilar would have stood a very good chance. Gavilar almost killed Szeth by himself, and only lost because Szeth did his balcony trick. Had Dalinar not been drunk and had been in Plate, I would find it hard to believe that Szeth would have killed Gavilar.

 

I disagree with Dalinar often, though, so I may be biased. His thought process tends to be a bit alien to me. Example:

 

“Careful,” Navani said. “You’re sounding like Jasnah. Anyway, if God is dead—”

“God isn’t dead. If the Almighty died, then he was never God, that’s all.”

"The being everyone called the Almighty (and who sent me visions, therefore basically proving to me he had divine power) died, therefore he was never a god but I still believe in a god" is a process of thinking I find odd.

[Numb]

I find it odd that Gavilar almost beat Szeth when he dismantles Adolin/Dalinar so easily. Did he get better over time?

 

As for the God thing I feel that's a question Sanderson wants us to think about. Is power itself Divine or is being Divine something more?

[Aether he/him]

I disagree with Dalinar often, though, so I may be biased. His thought process tends to be a bit alien to me. Example:

"The being everyone called the Almighty (and who sent me visions, therefore basically proving to me he had divine power) died, therefore he was never a god but I still believe in a god" is a process of thinking I find odd.

 

"If the one who calls himself the Almighty can die, then he is not almighty, and cannot therefore be the Almighty."

 

I'm an atheist myself, so I don't either identify at all with his beliefs, but I follow his reasoning. He basically concludes that there must be another "true" god above the one he sees in his visions, which really isn't far from the truth (of the Cosmere, that is).

Edited April 29, 2014 by Aether

[Veil she/her]

I find it odd that Gavilar almost beat Szeth when he dismantles Adolin/Dalinar so easily. Did he get better over time?

 

I think this is a safe bet. It's unclear how long Szeth had been an assassin before he killed Gavilar, but he was never notorious. People didn't know to prepare for him. Gavilar was probably about the biggest challenge he'd faced up to that point--Plate, Blade, lots of guards... After that point was when the Assassin in White became infamous, so the assassinations Taravangian sent him on became increasingly difficult as more and more people--with and without Shard or half-shards--were pitted against him. He was proficient at Surgebinding by the time he killed Gavilar, and he's had several years' more practice since then.

[Arondell]

I find it odd that Gavilar almost beat Szeth when he dismantles Adolin/Dalinar so easily. Did he get better over time?

 

I would bet he got better.  When Szeth killed the king of Jah Keved he took on two full shardbearers and several squads of troops, some with half shards, in an open dining area.  So from the readers perspective it seems possible that Dalinar could have won against Szeth early in his carrier.  Though given what information Dalinar might have it probably doesn't seem likely.

[Chrono she/her]

Szeth had rarely been used as an assassin before he was sent after Gavilar. Sure, he had the Shardblade, but he mentions that killing Gavilar was the worst act of murder he had yet committed. Flash forward five years, and he's being sent off to kill almost every single world leader alive. Szeth has to learn to get better in order to succeed, mainly because of the tight security these world leaders have. He's forced to learn on the job the best ways to kill heavily armed and dangerous bodyguards, mercenaries, security, and whatever else they can throw at him.

 

He's also failed at killing Dalinar once. Now that he kind of knows what he's going up against, he's not going to hold back.

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

I think this is a safe bet. It's unclear how long Szeth had been an assassin before he killed Gavilar, but he was never notorious. People didn't know to prepare for him. Gavilar was probably about the biggest challenge he'd faced up to that point--Plate, Blade, lots of guards... After that point was when the Assassin in White became infamous, so the assassinations Taravangian sent him on became increasingly difficult as more and more people--with and without Shard or half-shards--were pitted against him. He was proficient at Surgebinding by the time he killed Gavilar, and he's had several years' more practice since then.

There may also be a degree of savantism associated with frequent Honorblade use. During the Gavilar fight, Szeth is unable to speak because his face takes several minutes to heal, but in WoR he easily shrugs off spear wounds, healing them fast enough that Adolin noticed it immediately.

Edited April 30, 2014 by PorridgeBrick