Nymeros Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said: Look, all I’m saying is that given that if Odium wins he will in all probability exterminate ALL Spren that are of Honor and Cultivation (he pretty much says as much to Dalinar), the fact that Spark thinks it’s a good idea to side with Odium is just stupid, See, that's what's getting me. You're equating acting on emotion with being unintelligent and now also faulting Spark for not acting on information he has no way of knowing? Why? Quote I’ve said a few times now Odium is arguably at least indirectly responsible for the ‘deaths’ of Spark’s friends while the Radiants were just trying to do the right thing for all of Roshar, the Spren included. Even if they had "good" intentions, the Radiants consciously killed a massive portion of the Spren population and brought ruin to the Spren homeland. Odium...was not directly pestering humanity and had not for thousands of years. Quote I just really hope there’s more to the Ashspren’s betrayal than a misguided desire for revenge against people who didn’t even do anything to wrong them. If those Radiants were somehow still alive, then alright, I could maybe see how their actions might be considered if not reasonable than at least understandable, but they aren’t, they’ve been dead for 2500 years. I'm sure that not all Ashspren act or think like Spark just as we have not yet seen seen any other group of True Spren where each individual acts and thinks the same way. Keep in mind, Spren are not human, and they dont age or judge time in the same way as humans. Syl was alive before the Recreance and is still a young girl. We cannot say that their blood shouldn't still be hot because of the length of time. 1
Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 Are you saying you think it would be in any way a surprise to any Spren that Odium would want to destroy them as well?
Calderis he/him Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, Fanghur Rahl said: Are you saying you think it would be in any way a surprise to any Spren that Odium would want to destroy them as well? I think so, yes. Even when Odium mentions killing the Spren, he speaks of it as a new realization that he didn't originally think was necessary. Why would they expect him to kill them?
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 I doubt that all Dustbringers or ashspren will be vengeance-seeking. I think we will see a lot of orders who have people on different sides. Its already in the works with the Skybreakers. 1
animalia Posted September 25, 2018 Author Posted September 25, 2018 I admit I have a hard time understanding anger when it gets to the point when it ends up just causing it to destroy everything, even as I an sympathize with the causes of it. That's why I figured that Dustbringer might be so obedient. They need to direct their anger towards a POSITIVE direction, (Think how Scars character from Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood evolved. Thought to be fair he wasn't obedient he DID learn to channel his anger in a positive direction that broke the cycle of vengeance) so that they can channel it in a way that bring destruction and devastation to everything in their wake. But can get read of gold dead growth that hinders new growth instead. Does that make sense. Basically I'm saying that while Anger can be USEFUL it can also be DANGEROUS. Hence the need for a proper way to channel it. I also suspect just like in many case anger and the motivation for revenge can cloud one's judgement (the need to take things apart as it is) and one can't begin to move on until the begin to deconstruct their own motivations for revenge. The Dustbringers oaths work with channeling that motivation into a POSITIVE direction and making them QUESTION WHY they are truly doing this. I should point out I have come from the Tor reread and someone pointed there that Moash novelete began with the sigil. And it made me think. About not just Moash but Dustbringers in General. In a way I hadn't thought about them before Moash has a lot of anger, and it HAS blinded him, but if he could channel that anger in a positive direction it might do some good instead of bad. For ways that it has blinded him someone in the reread pointed out that Moash starts The Way Of Kings just wanting to turn things on their head. He would still have the discrimination continue but with Lighteyes on the bottom but with Dark Eyes on the top. It DEFINTLEY starts of being all about him. Not being about justice. Yet the way he tells the parshmen to do better, then humans, who knows. what the future holds for him. It could be good or, it could be belly up. I AM NOT saying that Moash will become a dustbringer. Brandon is too hard to predict for to be willing to place money. But I do think that the idea of Dustbringers being people who have to find a way to channel their anger in a positive direction to do good IS something that I see happening.
Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Calderis said: I think so, yes. Even when Odium mentions killing the Spren, he speaks of it as a new realization that he didn't originally think was necessary. Why would they expect him to kill them? Well for starters the fact that the Fused and Voidspren are invading Shadesmar and doing precisely that, albeit at this point not indiscriminately, though it’s only a matter of time. Remember that while Kaladin and the others were in the Spren city it was strongly implied that the Fused had begun killing? Edited September 25, 2018 by Fanghur Rahl
Calderis he/him Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 (edited) @Fanghur Rahl no, I don't remember anything about spren being killed. In fact, I don't think spren think death is possible other than deadeyes. Syl seemed horrified and amazed that Kaladin was able to use her to kill a spren. Edited September 25, 2018 by Calderis 1
goody153 Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 I wouldn't assume that all dustbringer will necessarily join Odium or will be there for revenge. Just like how not all honorspren followed the stormfathers restriction of not bonding anybody considering there is one named Syl. I wouldn't assume that all heralds will either stay away or join team Dalinar. Nale is a proof of that. It is not safe to assume that all Knight Radiants will go to Honor or not all Skybreakers will serve Odium (Szeth and others not introduced yet to wont follow Nale's insanity). Just like not all Listeners serve Odium (Venli and Rlain are examples of this) Basically there will always be deviants, there will always be those who are uninformed and there will be those who knew the risks but proceeded anyways. 1
Fanghur Rahl he/him Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Calderis said: @Fanghur Rahl no, I don't remember anything about spren being killed. In fact, I don't think spren think death is possible other than deadeyes. Syl seemed horrified and amazed that Kaladin was able to use her to kill a spren. Well it certainly seemed to me that the Spren were terrified of them for that reason, though admittedly that’s just my opinion.
Nymeros Posted September 25, 2018 Posted September 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said: Well for starters the fact that the Fused and Voidspren are invading Shadesmar and doing precisely that, albeit at this point not indiscriminately, though it’s only a matter of time. Remember that while Kaladin and the others were in the Spren city it was strongly implied that the Fused had begun killing? I honestly dont remember Odiums forces killing Spren though I do recall them taking control of the Perpendicularity leading to Roshar to stop travel between realms. As for ANY Spren being surprised by Odium wanting to destroy them...yeah I'm sure the majority would be since Odium doesn't appear to have ever attempted such a thing in the past even to curb the birth of new Radiants.
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