Hemalurgy and Returned

[Vortaan]

So, let's talk about Hemalurgy and the Returned, shall we? From what I gather, on Scadrial there have not been hemalurgic spikes that have been completely Invested. This is what allows Inquisitors to use their spikes as metalminds. So, keeping that in mind... if you spike a Returned, do you steal the Splinter? Does that fully invest the spike? What happens when you use it? 

[Satsuoni]

I don't think splinter is the whole of the Returned's soul... more like a patch that keeps one  alive. That aside: you'd steal a part of the splinter, probably. I think that hemalurgy does not allow to Invest a piece of metal completely, just the part that corresponds to its hemalurgic properties, if that makes any sense. For example, Koloss spikes, after several reuses, stopped absorbing additional Strength from people, but didn't seem to get any special properties because of that, only some off-attribute contamination:

 

 A spike can only hold so much of a Hemalurgic charge, so they could not create spikes that granted infinite strength, no matter how many people those spikes killed and drew power from. However, did the repeated reuse of spikes perhaps bring more humanity to the koloss they made?

 

As for what'd happen if you were to use it... Unknown   Possibly you'd end up with a piece of Divine Breath stuck to you permanently, without ability to use it... There were threads before discussing Hemalurgy with Breaths.

[Vortaan]

I don't think splinter is the whole of the Returned's soul... more like a patch that keeps one  alive. That aside: you'd steal a part of the splinter, probably. I think that hemalurgy does not allow to Invest a piece of metal completely, just the part that corresponds to its hemalurgic properties, if that makes any sense. For example, Koloss spikes, after several reuses, stopped absorbing additional Strength from people, but didn't seem to get any special properties because of that, only some off-attribute contamination:

 

As for what'd happen if you were to use it... Unknown   Possibly you'd end up with a piece of Divine Breath stuck to you permanently, without ability to use it... There were threads before discussing Hemalurgy with Breaths.

 

The thought with the koloss spikes though is that the amount of Investiture they are stealing is pretty small, just the bit of Preservation that was in people.

[Satsuoni]

The thought with the koloss spikes though is that the amount of Investiture they are stealing is pretty small, just the bit of Preservation that was in people.

True, but as they charge spikes on people again and again, it adds up, up to a limit.

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

True, but as they charge spikes on people again and again, it adds up, up to a limit.

That was my thought as well but I always thought that a Divine Breath was the Nalthis equivalent of a Spren. Which would mean that having a Hemalurgicly attached Divine Breath would be similar to having a post-Recreance Blade, powerful but limited. Due to the Decay that comes with the Hemalurgy.

[Swimmingly]

What I'm wondering is if a Divine Breath 'keeps' without breaths to sustain it while spiked. You know, because the host it had needed to keep alive is dead and all.

[Satsuoni]

That was my thought as well but I always thought that a Divine Breath was the Nalthis equivalent of a Spren. Which would mean that having a Hemalurgicly attached Divine Breath would be similar to having a post-Recreance Blade, powerful but limited. Due to the Decay that comes with the Hemalurgy.

It is is Splinter, so it kind of is equivalent. I am just not sure that a single spike can hold the whole thing, unless it steals attach point (like in case with Shardblade) rather than the Breath itself. If it does, you would be able to use the Breath up without spike going inert in your body, other wise... unknown XD

 

What I'm wondering is if a Divine Breath 'keeps' without breaths to sustain it while spiked. You know, because the host it had needed to keep alive is dead and all.

Why not? It is returned that eat 1 Breath per week, regardless of Breath size, not normal people.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Satsuoni

[Swimmingly]

It is is Splinter, so it kind of is equivalent. I am just not sure that a single spike can hold the whole thing, unless it steals attach point (like in case with Shardblade) rather than the Breath itself. If it does, you would be able to use the Breath up without spike going inert in your body, other wise... unknown XD

Why not? It is returned that eat 1 Breath per week, regardless of Breath size, not normal people.

Could you clarify? I'm not quite understanding...

[Satsuoni]

Could you clarify? I'm not quite understanding...

Clarify which part?

 If the breath-eating, it comes from this WoB:

 

You don't lose your Divine Breath, but it does go into hiding, making you look like a normal person. But you're still Returned, and are consuming a Breath at one a week. If you give away your other Breaths, you retain this hidden one, but your body will still consume its own spirit if left to do so. So you still need a Breath a week to survive, and will die the week you don't get one.

It is property of Returned's bodies that they eat one Breath per week, not Divine Breath's.

[Swimmingly]

Of course, we don't actually know whether that's true, because in-universe narrators are unreliable, and it's spoken of as if it's the Breath doing the devouring sometimes as well.

[PorridgeBrick]

Of course, we don't actually know whether that's true, because in-universe narrators are unreliable, and it's spoken of as if it's the Breath doing the devouring sometimes as well.

I'm pretty sure that's a quote from the annotations.

[Satsuoni]

Of course, we don't actually know whether that's true, because in-universe narrators are unreliable, and it's spoken of as if it's the Breath doing the devouring sometimes as well.

? That above is WoB, not in-book, so it is more reliable. ?

 

Here is another one:

 

They will die the moment they run out of breath to harvest. Once a week their body needs a breath in order to survive. Each Returned has one single superpowered breath. Imagine it as one breath that propels them up through the Heightenings, but it is only a single breath. It's what we speak of in Shard world terminology as a Splinter. And when the seventh day comes, if a Returned does not have another breath for his body to consume to keep him alive, his body will actually eat his divine breath and kill him. So they don't die immediately after they get rid of the breath, they're sort of put into a state of limbo where if they don't find more breath by the time that their feast day comes, then they will die. (Vasher did not give his Returned breath to Denth, just a number of normal breaths.)

Edited April 27, 2014 by Satsuoni

[Swimmingly]

Oh, OK. I thought that was from Vasher's exposition things. Sorry.

[Vortaan]

That was my thought as well but I always thought that a Divine Breath was the Nalthis equivalent of a Spren. Which would mean that having a Hemalurgicly attached Divine Breath would be similar to having a post-Recreance Blade, powerful but limited. Due to the Decay that comes with the Hemalurgy.

 

I got the impression that the same spike can't steal the same attribute more than once, but this could be just me. This is what I credit with bringing more humanity to the koloss, as the spike couldn't take more strength, so it took more of the basic part of Preservation that allows sentience.

 

What I'm wondering is if a Divine Breath 'keeps' without breaths to sustain it while spiked. You know, because the host it had needed to keep alive is dead and all.

 

I guess the secondary question there is if you spike it into a normal person, will their body try to eat Breaths, or is that a side effect of Returning?