OB Notes: Is Mraize a Dysian? – An Oath Made by Honorspren? – Nale’s Fifth Ideal – Timbre and Ico – Honor and Odium’s Power

[Confused]

I went through my OB notes and came up with some ideas I’d like to let loose. Others may have anticipated them, but if so, I didn’t notice your posts. Please take your credit.

IS MRAIZE A DYSIAN?

Random reasons provoke this question:

1. Spy Network. Mraize and the Ghostbloods seem as informed as any group on Roshar. We know Dysians use their hordelings as spies.

2. Unseen Actions. Mraize delivers his messages to Shallan completely unnoticed. It’s as if he disassembles then reassembles in her room where he writes his notes.

3. Mraize’s Face. Mraize’s scarred face may mask his Dysian imperfections. Here’s how Shallan describes him at their first meeting:

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a face scarred by old wounds, including a cut that ran down his cheek and deformed his upper lip…. Those violet eyes seemed like glass, his scarred face expressionless. (WoR, Chapter 43, Kindle pp. 490-491)

The second time Shallan meets Mraize, she observes “his scarred face, misaligned lip, and weathered hands… he looked like someone who had repeatedly had his bones broken….” (WoR, Chapter 54, Kindle p. 628.)

4. Mraize’s Age. Mraize calls Veil “child,” like Hoid calls Shallan and Jezrien (Ahu) calls Dalinar. This appellation surprises Shallan, since she made Veil appear older:

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Had Mraize just called her “child”? She’d intentionally made this version of her look older, with a more angular face. What did she need to do? Start adding grey hairs to her head? (WoR, Chapter 54, Kindle p. 629.)

This suggests (but doesn’t prove) Mraize may be pretty old himself. (He does call Shalash “Ancient One,” but that seems more respect than an indication of relative age.) Mraize as a Dysian also explains his contact with other Shardworlds – @Overlord Jebus theorizes (correctly IMO) that Dysian hordelings will foster inter-Shardworld communication.

Of course, Mraize could also be a Hoid masquerade, but for now I’ll stick with a Dysian “from Thaylenah.”

AN HONORSPREN OATH?

Notum tells Kaladin, “’I’ve sworn an oath myself,’ the captain said. ‘To Honor, and to the truths we follow.’” (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1017.) This causes me to wonder: Must honorspren swear an oath to become an honorspren? Is it a rite of passage like confirmation? Do some “honorspren” refuse to vow? Are these the mistspren that sail the Honor’s Path?

NALE’S FIFTH OATH

Nale has spoken the Fifth Skybreaker Oath, which he says means he has become “the Law.” This seems wrong. Nale’s Divine Attribute is “Just,” which means he should embody Justice, not the Law. Instead, Nale derides Justice as inferior because mercy leads to recidivism:

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Leniency and mercy. Men set free despite crimes, because they were good fathers, or well-liked in the community, or in the favor of someone important.

“Some of those who are set free change their lives and go on to produce for society. Others recidivate and create great tragedies. The thing is, Szeth-son-Neturo, we humans are terrible at spotting which will be which. The purpose of the law is so we do not have to choose. So our native sentimentality will not harm us.” (OB, Chapter 106, Kindle p. 987.)

KR orders share their Herald’s Divine Attributes. Radiant spren IMO are attracted to people with the right Primary Divine Attribute – “protect” (Honorspren), “just” (Highspren), “brave” (Ashspren), “loving” (Cultivationspren), “learned” (Truthwatcher spren), “creative” (Cryptics), “wise” (Inkspren), “resolute” (Lightspren), “dependable” (Stoneward spren), and “pious” (the three Siblings).

Radiant spren are living exemplars of these Attributes. I believe the Fifth Oath fully manifests Radiant spren in the Physical Realm. They merge Spiritwebs with their bonded mortal, who becomes the living exemplar of their Primary Divine Attribute.

Nale should be Justice, not the Law. Since he thinks he’s the Law, I suspect Lift did not fully heal him.

IS TIMBRE ICO’S DAUGHTER?

Timbre may be Ico’s daughter. Ico is the captain of the spren ship that picks up Kaladin, Shallan, Adolin, etc. at Riino’s Shadesmar lighthouse.

Ico is a Lightspren, the Willshaper spren. He tells Kaladin, “My daughter used to work [at the Celebrant moneychangers] before she ran off chasing stupid dreams.” (OB, Chapter 101, Kindle p. 948.) Something about that line sounds like Timbre is his daughter and ran off, like Syl did, to bond with a mortal. Maybe her “stupid dream” is to be first to bond a Singer. That’s something a Lightspren might want to explore. Timbre attunes to “Resolution” quite a bit, the Willshaper Primary Divine Attribute.

HONOR AND ODIUM’S POWER

I still believe Honor’s power “makes Connections” and Odium’s power “breaks Connections.” On Roshar that generally means “people” Connections. I think the Dalinar-Venli vision shows the full extent of the powers’ difference:

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A sudden thump resounded in the vision. Venli attuned Anxiety and rushed out onto the balcony. A half-destroyed city stretched below, where a battle had happened, dead heaped in piles.

That pounding sounded again. The … the air was breaking. The clouds and sky seemed to be a mural painted on an enormous dome ceiling, and as the pounds continued, a web of cracks appeared overhead. Beyond them shone a vivid yellow light. “He’s here,” she whispered, then waved toward it….

With the next pound, the sky fractured and a hole appeared overhead, a powerful light shining beyond. The very shards of the air—broken like a mirror—were sucked into that light.

A pulse of power blasted from the hole, shaking the city with a terrible vibration. It tossed Venli to the balcony’s floor. Kholin reached to help her, but a second pulse caused him to fall as well.

The bricks in the room’s wall separated from one another and began to float apart. The boards that made up the balcony began to lift, nails floating into the sky. A guard ran to the balcony, but stumbled, and his very skin started to separate into water and a dried husk.

Everything just … came apart.

A wind rose around Venli, pulling debris toward that hole in the sky, and the brilliant, terrible light beyond. Boards shredded to splinters; bricks floated past her head. She growled, the Rhythm of Resolve thumping inside her as she grabbed and clung to parts of the floor that hadn’t yet separated.

That burning. She knew it well, the terrible pain of Odium’s heat scalding her skin, scorching her until her very bones—somehow still able to feel—became ash. It happened every time he gave her orders. What worse thing would he do if he found her fraternizing with the enemy?

She attuned Determination and crawled away from the light. Escape! She reached the chamber beyond the balcony and lurched to her feet, trying to run. The wind pulled at her, making each step a struggle.

Overhead, the ceiling separated in a single magnificent burst—each brick exploding away from the others, then streaming toward the void. The pieces of the unfortunate guard rose after them, a sack drained of grain, a puppet with no controlling hand.

Venli dropped to the ground again and continued crawling, but the stones of the floor separated, floating upward with her on them. Soon, she was scrambling precariously from one floating piece of stone to another. The Rhythm of Resolve still attuned, she dared to glance backward. The hole had widened, and the all-consuming light feasted on the streams of refuse.

She turned away, desperate to do what she could to delay her own burning. Then … she stopped and looked back again. Dalinar Kholin stood on the balcony. And he was glowing.

Neshua Kadal. Radiant Knight.

Without meaning to, she attuned the Rhythm of Awe. Around Kholin, the balcony was stable. Boards trembled and quivered at his feet, but did not move into the sky. The balcony railing had ripped apart to either side of him, but where he held to it with a firm grip, it remained secure….

The calm, gentle light spread from Dalinar Kholin’s hand to the railing, then down into the floor. Boards and stones sank down from the air, reknitting. Venli’s current block of stone settled back into place. All through the city, buildings burst apart and zoomed upward, but the walls of this tower returned to their positions.

(OB, Chapter 109, Kindle pp. 1025-1026; bold added)

Odium breaks. Honor binds.

Threnody Spoiler

Spoiler

The description of the balcony guard whose “very skin started to separate into water and a dried husk” sounds like what happens to Threnody humans touched by Shades – they wither. This aspect of Shades seems to come from Odium and not Ambition.

I wonder why silver counteracts the withering effect and restores water to the Shade-touched? It may explain the Celebrant chain’s value, as many theorize. More broadly, silver may become a useful antidote to Odium’s touch anywhere.

That’s what I got for now.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Confused

[Ruin's Scariest Koloss]

On 9/18/2018 at 9:47 PM, Confused said:

NALE’S FIFTH OATH

Nale has spoken the Fifth Skybreaker Oath, which he says means he has become “the Law.” This seems wrong. Nale’s Divine Attribute is “Just,” which means he should embody Justice, not the Law. Instead, Nale derides Justice as inferior because mercy leads to recidivism:

Quote

Leniency and mercy. Men set free despite crimes, because they were good fathers, or well-liked in the community, or in the favor of someone important.

“Some of those who are set free change their lives and go on to produce for society. Others recidivate and create great tragedies. The thing is, Szeth-son-Neturo, we humans are terrible at spotting which will be which. The purpose of the law is so we do not have to choose. So our native sentimentality will not harm us.” (OB, Chapter 106, Kindle p. 987.)

KR orders share their Herald’s Divine Attributes. Radiant spren IMO are attracted to people with the right Primary Divine Attribute – “protect” (Honorspren), “just” (Highspren), “brave” (Ashspren), “loving” (Cultivationspren), “learned” (Truthwatcher spren), “creative” (Cryptics), “wise” (Inkspren), “resolute” (Lightspren), “dependable” (Stoneward spren), and “pious” (the three Siblings).

Radiant spren are living exemplars of these Attributes. I believe the Fifth Oath fully manifests Radiant spren in the Physical Realm. They merge Spiritwebs with their bonded mortal, who becomes the living exemplar of their Primary Divine Attribute.

Nale should be Justice, not the Law. Since he thinks he’s the Law, I suspect Lift did not fully heal him.

I totally agree that it's really strange. Nale is kind of insane though, so I don't think we can really trust that his Fifth Ideal is typical of other Radiants or even other Skybreakers.

[Jace21]

I think any issues caused by Nale's oath are due to his own madness, not the oath itself.

When does he say Justice is inferior? All I see in Oathbringer is him stating that the Law is flawed, but better than most alternatives.

The 5th ideal then would be then when he was sufficiently just that he is the law rather than being bound by it, allowing him to apply justice to the flawed law.

"I am justice" wouldn't help much as it would put him in conflict with the law, whereas "I am the law" allows him to supersede the law with his sense of justice.

Of course he is insane so his sense of justice can't be trusted at the moment, and therein lies the problem.

[Ciridae]

I really like the Mraize theory, and I want to believe it even if I don't totally buy it yet. Mraize kills a cremling with his blow gun and I think it's confirmed that that was a Dysian. Which means he's at least aware of them. 

I want the chain to be silver too 

[Toaster Retribution]

I prefer the dragon idea for Mraize to be honest, even though Dysian is possible. Good catch with Timbre though, its entirely possible. 

[Scion of the Mists]

I think all of these are new, except for the Timbre/Ico connection.  

[Yata]

Yeah the Timbre as Ico's daughter is one of the most accepted theories in the comunity