So, what did Nale swear?

[Wreith]

2 minutes ago, ReaderAt2046 said:

That is a good point. Maybe somebody will point this out to him and force him to switch sides once more!

I think this is more a display of the fact that Szeth is more careful with his oaths now.
I don't think other Skybreakers would reserve the right to change like that.

[Toaster Retribution]

7 minutes ago, Quantus said:

But Im mean, they are Crazy, and that is why they are doing all the various weird things they are all doing.  That doesnt preclude them from having their own justifications which they truly believe in (or not, could be compulsions), nor would it prevent Brandon from using said madness in a narrative satisfying way.  Nor just it require them to be the drooling in a straight-jacket sort of crazy.  By all indications they've each developed individual forms of madness, and madness can be rational-seeming just as easily as it can be flamboyant chaos.  The coldly rational-seeming madness is, in my opinion, the more frightening by far.

 

Edit: As a point of reference, Id consider Mr T. to be just as batshit crazy on most of his days, and yet there remains very much a Pattern to his madness.

What I mean is basically that the Heralds doing non-logical stuff to advance the plot feels wierd. And I think there are hints to that Ishar is not interested in choosing another side but his own. His actions are obviously due to madness, but I think that all the Heralds have a pattern. Nale follows others to the extreme and takes the law too far, for example. Ash destroys pictures of herself (she should be glad that Roshar doesn’t have Facebook). I expect Ishars madness to have a similar pattern to it, and I just think that randomly sending Nale to Odium goes against the Ishar we saw in the Tezim letter, and the Ishar Stormfather talked about. 

[Quantus]

3 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

What I mean is basically that the Heralds doing non-logical stuff to advance the plot feels wierd. And I think there are hints to that Ishar is not interested in choosing another side but his own. His actions are obviously due to madness, but I think that all the Heralds have a pattern. Nale follows others to the extreme and takes the law too far, for example. Ash destroys pictures of herself (she should be glad that Roshar doesn’t have Facebook). I expect Ishars madness to have a similar pattern to it, and I just think that randomly sending Nale to Odium goes against the Ishar we saw in the Tezim letter, and the Ishar Stormfather talked about. 

Fair enough. All I was trying to say is that Ishar deciding to trick Nale into going over to Odium is crazy but most likely not Random at all, even if it doesnt make sense yet 

[Joseph Archuleta]

On 9/17/2018 at 11:18 PM, Joseph Archuleta said:

 I thought it was obvious that Ishar is actively working against the Oath-Pact by sicking the SkyBreakers on the other orders and using Nale's dependence for guidance to put them on the side of Odium. Even though our beloved Herold of Law says he is the only one still sane, the StormFather describes him as the most mad and most hateful.

I have decided that either the patron of the BondSmiths has been taken over by the influence of the Void or his madness had turned him against everything he once held dear.

am I the only one who thinks this?

[+Child of Hodor]

34 minutes ago, Joseph Archuleta said:

am I the only one who thinks this?

I agree. There is a WoR epigraph, one from the diagram ch. 86

“one is almost certainly a traitor to the others”.

Probably about Ishar. I think he’s lying to the other Heralds because he’s become the inverse of what he once was. Not sure if he consciously chose to help Odium. He’s giving them terrible advice that he knows is wrong on some level.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Child of Hodor

[Solant]

This might seem off topic, but it's relevant to the question of Ishar's motivations, so bear with me, and forgive me if it's been suggested before.

Ishar is the Herald of Bondsmiths. Unlike the other radiants, who's spren mimic the honor blades, the bondsmiths identity by the specific high level spren they bond, thus limiting their number to no more then three at any time. 

As I was reading this thread, I had the idle thought that maybe the bondsmith bond actually mimics the relationship between Ishar and Honor himself. This could explain why bondsmith aren't permitted shards, as honor would not have acted in that capacity for Ishar.

Could Honors death have affected ishar so profoundly as to be the root of his particular insanity? Could it be that not only does he believe himself a god, but Honors heir? How would that affect his motivation in regards to Nale and the other heralds?

[Naurock]

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

I agree. There is a WoR epigraph, one from the diagram ch. 86

“one is almost certainly a traitor to the others”.

Probably about Ishar. I think he’s lying to the other Heralds because he’s become the inverse of what he once was. Not sure if he consciously chose to help Odium. He’s giving them terrible advice that he knows is wrong on some level.

Your epigraph could have also be referencing an Unmade from what we've seen from Oathbringer. I'd have to check if these epigraphs were following some sort of thread or were just jumping around.

[+Child of Hodor]

11 minutes ago, Naurock said:

Your epigraph could have also be referencing an Unmade from what we've seen from Oathbringer. I'd have to check if these epigraphs were following some sort of thread or were just jumping around.

Traitor could be about the Unmade. The chapter 86 one is in a sequence of random topics as far chapters. But it is in the “Book of the second drawer” part of the diagram which the other Unmade diagram comments are in.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Child of Hodor

[Nymeros]

What is "the law of God?"

I'll take that as my final answer. It makes too much sense.

 

On 9/18/2018 at 7:12 AM, Quantus said:

should go to Cultivation as the Surviving Defender of her besieged home. The fact that both races of mortal fodder have switched sides shouldnt change that.

Cultivation isn't actively defending anything. She withdrew and mostly abandoned humanity after Honor died. In the battle of Shards, Odium won.

[Quantus]

51 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

Cultivation isn't actively defending anything. She withdrew and mostly abandoned humanity after Honor died. In the battle of Shards, Odium won.

I dont believe that is the case:

 

Quote

 

Gavin-son-son-Odegard [PENDING REVIEW]

How does Cultivation figure in this conflict between Odium?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So, what people assume is that Cultivation is hiding. I would disagree with that. People in-world would assume that.

source

 

 

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I dont believe that is the case:

As far as Nale is concerned though, "people in-world would assume that." is more important. If she appears to have withdrawn, no matter what she is doing in reality, Nale's logic no longer views her as a participant in the conflict. 

[Quantus]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

As far as Nale is concerned though, "people in-world would assume that." is more important. If she appears to have withdrawn, no matter what she is doing in reality, Nale's logic no longer views her as a participant in the conflict. 

That's a fair point.  Im of the opinion that he will eventually learn the error of that logic on stage, and come back to the "good" side in some properly dramatic fashion (especially if it involves a Herald-on-Herald confrontation with Ishar).

[Nymeros]

On 9/24/2018 at 9:08 AM, Quantus said:

That's a fair point.  Im of the opinion that he will eventually learn the error of that logic on stage, and come back to the "good" side in some properly dramatic fashion (especially if it involves a Herald-on-Herald confrontation with Ishar).

It's as Calderis indicated, Nale has no way of knowing that Cultivation is still willing to fight. I think Stormfather was referring to her when he mentioned that Odium losing a contest of champions would coax out other forces. However I never considered Nale breaking with Odium and joining her. Hmmmm

Edited September 27, 2018 by Nymeros