Szeth - Truthless Origin

[kobain]

I've seen a lot of discussion regarding Szeth on this forums, but none seem to address the main question i have regarding how he came to be Truthless.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems to me Szeth became truthless because he claimed that the Knight Radiants were back. (Something his people in Shin nation didn't like)

 

So my question is, what, or who did he see to come up with that claim? Did he see someone surgebinding? I'm not sure about timeline he if he saw someone surgebinding, that must have been way before Gavilar was killed, which makes it way before anyone we know of, who currently can surgebind. Who could that be?

[Arondell]

So far we haven't been given any info on what led up to Szeth being declared truthless.  Well...To be a bit more specific we don't know what information Szeth had access to that led him to the conclusion that the Knights Radiant and the Voidbringers were returning which in turn caused him to be declared truthless..  I believe the next book is supposed to give us that information since it is Szeth's flashback book.

[Leuthie]

The Diagram asks the question "Maybe we can create a Truthless" suggesting that King T put things in motion that lead Szeth to do something to cause the powers that be in Shinovar to make him Truthless.

[RShara she/her]

Brandon thinks that T went to the NIghtwatcher after Gavilar's death, though he wasn't absolutely positive.  It was PAFO'd but I don't think we ever heard back for sure.

[woolhead]

Yeah if Mr T was the mastermind behind Szeth becoming truthless I think Brandon would have remembered and not been doubtful about whether Mr T got his superpowers before or after Gavilar's assassination. 

 

What if the reason Szeth thought the KR were back was because he started bonding with a Spren? 

[Aether he/him]

What if the reason Szeth thought the KR were back was because he started bonding with a Spren? 

Impossible, as he would have then KNOWN that they were coming back and been able to refuse to be Truthless. He almost broke from it after he had faced Kaladin.

[Shardless]

Mr T. could not have created Szeth as a truthless.  I thought Mr T found out about Galivar's visions around the time of Galivar's death.  Mr T then put in motion going to the Nightwatcher and then the Diagram was created when he was super smart.  So the Diagram probably happened after Gavilar died.  Szeth was already truthless by that time.

[Vasteel he/him]

I don't think he became truthless because the KR were coming back. He freaked out when he saw Kaladin using stormlight and said that it was impossible. Suggesting that there should be no possibility of Knight Radiants existing. Unless I read that wrong. It was really fast and I'm waiting to do my second read through

[woolhead]

Impossible, as he would have then KNOWN that they were coming back and been able to refuse to be Truthless. He almost broke from it after he had faced Kaladin.

What if it was something like:

Szeth: "Hey Stone Shaman, this dustspren seems to be behaving oddly and following me around, do you think maybe the Knights Radiant are coming back?" 

Stone Shaman: "That's ridiculous, Szeth, by the way you're truthless now." 

With the possible added motivation of breaking the new bond by forcing Szeth to use surges not affiliated with the order he was developing towards (via the honorblade) and to behave in a non-knightly manner (though that backfired since he went full lawmode). 

[digitalbusker he/him]

I don't think he became truthless because the KR were coming back. He freaked out when he saw Kaladin using stormlight and said that it was impossible. Suggesting that there should be no possibility of Knight Radiants existing. Unless I read that wrong. It was really fast and I'm waiting to do my second read through

That was "that's impossible" in the Luke Skywalker sense of "I refuse to believe this is true, because it has implications with which I am not comfortable," not "I literally do not believe this is possible based on my understanding of physics."

 

"If this person is a Knight Radiant, then the thing I was punished for saying is true, and I should never have been made Truthless, and all these horrible things I've been doing for the last six-plus years were not my deserved punishment for heresy, but just horrible things I did. I do not wish that to be the case, so: 'That's impossible!'"

[Vasteel he/him]

That was "that's impossible" in the Luke Skywalker sense of "I refuse to believe this is true, because it has implications with which I am not comfortable," not "I literally do not believe this is possible based on my understanding of physics."

 

"If this person is a Knight Radiant, then the thing I was punished for saying is true, and I should never have been made Truthless, and all these horrible things I've been doing for the last six-plus years were not my deserved punishment for heresy, but just horrible things I did. I do not wish that to be the case, so: 'That's impossible!'"

Haha yeah, I reread that chapter last night. I see what you mean

[Horatio Spifflewicket]

That was "that's impossible" in the Luke Skywalker sense of "I refuse to believe this is true, because it has implications with which I am not comfortable," not "I literally do not believe this is possible based on my understanding of physics."

 

"If this person is a Knight Radiant, then the thing I was punished for saying is true, and I should never have been made Truthless, and all these horrible things I've been doing for the last six-plus years were not my deserved punishment for heresy, but just horrible things I did. I do not wish that to be the case, so: 'That's impossible!'"

 

 

Which, when you state it that way, is almost a direct parallel from Wit's story in WoK about Derethil and the Wandersail.

[Wrath]

My theory is that Szeth received a warning about the coming Desolation from a Herald, along with his Honourblade, but when he passed it on to the Stone Shamans they declared him Truthless instead of listening.