Allomancy and Metal Toxicity

[Batchman]

So here are a couple of questions I was recently thinking about ...

First, some (most?) of the metals burned in Allomancy fall into the range of heavy metals ... do those burning them ever need to worry about heavy metal poisoning?

And secondly, indications are that chromium can burn off the metal reserves in opposing allomancers ... is there any way that use of Chromium by a sufficiently powerful allomancer might allow for the curing of somebody suffering from heavy metal poisoning? Especially of allomantic metals?

Just thinking ....

[SOM1else he/him]

I'm not sure about your second question but I would assume that unless the person that would be cured is an allomancer that can burn the specific metal poisoning them then chromium wiuld have no effect on them. As for your first question Kell warns Vin about this in FE, as long as the metals don't stay in their bodies to long the would be fine. All they have to do is burn away their reserves at the end of each night and nothing bad should happen.

[Marris]

Copying this from another thread.

This particular Q&A may not have been added to it yet anyways, as the interview was very recent. Here's the thread for it: Linky. And here's the exact quote:

Josh: When non-god metals are burned Allomantically, what happens to the metals? Are they crushed into tiny specks? Do they disappear?

The metals become a key conduit through which the power is delivered. So they are actually sort of vaporized, and the atomic code is a key by which the power is drawn in.

As long as the metals are burned off, no need to worry about heavy metal poisoning.

[Joe ST he/him]

indeed, if Chromium burning allows you to vaporise any (Allomantic) metal, rather than just ones being used by other Allomancers, that'd be awesome!

[Ryan he/him]

Imagine a chromium burner bringing down a steel-girded building. o_O

[Aashyma she/her]

Imagine a chromium burner bringing down a steel-girded building. o_O

I think the metals being burnt must be consumed xD

Side note: Can animals use any of the metallic arts?

[MindCanaries]

I cannot recall where, but Brandon has definitely confirmed that animals can be given Hemalurgic spikes. I believe it's in the Brandonthology.

[SOM1else he/him]

I don't think that they can use allomancy/ferruchemy though.

[KChan she/her]

That likely has to do with them not having the intellectual functions required to properly apply the metallic arts. However, given the right spike and placement, instinctive burning - like the body automatically burning any pewter reserves it has built up when injured - should be possible. Theoretically at least.

That is, unless they need to have a soul in the first place in order for it to work. In that case, well, I guess it depends on whether animals on Scadrial have souls or not.

[Ryan he/him]

That is, unless they need to have a soul in the first place in order for it to work. In that case, well, I guess it depends on whether animals on Scadrial have souls or not.

I've never put in the time or attention to really "get" realmatic theory, but based on my limited understanding, the fact that animals can accept spikes implies (in the strong, logical-implies sense) that they have souls, because hemalurgic spikes alter the spiritual DNA (among other things? It's been a while). It also implies that their spiritual DNA can be altered such that they can burn metals.

[KChan she/her]

That's what I thought, but I figured that particular caveat was worth mentioning. I dunno if this is a good idea, though. Seriously, who wants to go camping and run into a Mistborn bear?

[Aashyma she/her]

That's what I thought, but I figured that particular caveat was worth mentioning. I dunno if this is a good idea, though. Seriously, who wants to go camping and run into a Mistborn bear?

That and creating a spike'd mean killing a human Mistborn.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Aashyma

[Quantum Toast he/him]

That and creating a spike mean killing a human Mistborn.

Actually, a spike can only transfer one power IIRC, so to make a Mistborn bear you'd need to kill at least sixteen Allomancers.

[Joe ST he/him]

Actually, a spike can only transfer one power IIRC, so to make a Mistborn bear you'd need to kill at least sixteen Allomancers.

Maybe that's where god-metal spikes come in? but yeah lots of spikes. The hole point is that spikes twist the soul of the spiked, so the bear would become more aware? much like Mistwraiths and the twisting of Koloss

[KChan she/her]

I believe that would only be if the bear were spiked with the proper spikes - that is, the ones that impart human aspects like physical and mental fortitude. Of course, those also cause a great deal more corruption in the target creature than just imparting powers, which is why Koloss turn from humans into, well, Koloss when spiked with them.

EDIT: Also, seriously. Not a good idea.

[Chaos he/him]

I've never put in the time or attention to really "get" realmatic theory, but based on my limited understanding, the fact that animals can accept spikes implies (in the strong, logical-implies sense) that they have souls, because hemalurgic spikes alter the spiritual DNA (among other things? It's been a while). It also implies that their spiritual DNA can be altered such that they can burn metals.

We don't know much of Realmatics, so it's hard to say, but I'll try to explain.

Saying that an animal has a soul is imprecise, and too strong of a word. But a bear would have a Spiritual aspect, just like humans, and just like goblets. In fact, the predominant idea is that everything has a Physical, Cognitive, and a Spiritual aspect. Some are just weaker than others.

I think Kerry said it best here, though she didn't know it:

That likely has to do with them not having the intellectual functions required to properly apply the metallic arts.

Exactly. You can give someone the Hemalurgic "hack" which gives yourself the Spiritual DNA to use Allomancy. Now a bear has the correct Spiritual aspect to enable Allomancy (or Feruchemy), and in the cool Physical aspect of a bear. But you need that last component of a Cognitive aspect to activate the powers. Sometimes it is instinctual, so I'm sure a bear can use some of the powers, but it wouldn't be so effective.

In fact, I asked Brandon if an Allomancer was turned into a koloss, would it retain his powers, and this is what he said (note, this is actually a different Joe from the U.K. than Joe_ST):

17th Shard: Joe from the U.K. asks a terrifying question, "If an Allomancer is turned into a loloss, would they keep their powers?"

Brandon: If an Allomancer is turned into a koloss? You know…

17th Shard: We're scared of this.

Brandon: Yeah, no. That's actually something I've thought about. An Allomancer turned into a koloss would keep their powers because, as you'll recall, an Allomancer turned in to an Inquisitor retains their powers. Whether they would be able to always know how to use them remains to be seen, but you could definitely have a koloss Allomancer if you built them right.

Whether they know how to use it. In this case, the Hemalurgy is distorting both the Physical and Cognitive aspects. I think, if you worked really hard, you may be able to enhance an animal's Cognitive aspect to use the Metallic Arts more extensively--I don't know if you could use Human Mental Fortitude to manipulate this, but maybe if you worked really hard...

That Cognitive aspect is important. In the case of koloss, it's that their minds have been twisted, and in the case of animals, they didn't have enough of a Cognitive aspect to begin with.

[Ryan he/him]

Ah, okay. That's quite clear.

BUT! I will say this. Smart animals clearly have some intelligence above and beyond base instinct. I mean, shoot, you can train a chimp to do sign language. They also can do marvelous things with their base instinct. If you could somehow modify that instinct, I could easily see a bear tapping pewter for extra strength in the same way it perceives the world around it by scent. You wouldn't get Bearquisitors flying through the air, since that requires a good deal of on-the-fly reasoning, but I see no reason why basic functions should be out of their grasp.

[Chaos he/him]

I believe you are right. Many animals' Cognitive aspects are probably fairly effective, and if you give them a tool, they will use it.

[Joe ST he/him]

it might be one of those evolution-type things: the first animal that figures the powers out has an advantage, and thus survives longer, meaning more kids, who probably have the power too, and are smart enough to work it out, and thus everything else dies XD

[Zas678 he/him]

That's what I thought, but I figured that particular caveat was worth mentioning. I dunno if this is a good idea, though. Seriously, who wants to go camping and run into a Mistborn bear?

Don't forget the dreaded Mistborn Llama.

Also let me find the Hemalurgical Animal quote....

Would Hemalurgy work on animals?

5. Yes, it would.

Yeah that's all he says. I thought he said more than that, but nope. I've always assumed that it meant that you could take things like "Human strength" or things like that from them, not give it to them. Not allomantic spikes- just human ones (like the ones Kandra have).

Hmm. But if you do get animals with allomancy, than hemalurgical spikes could come in style again. Could even be a public company-

Want to be able to fly like a Lurcher? "Push around" your friends and enemies? Then buy one of our Wolf Earrings! Made from the most pure strains of allomantic animals, these ferocious animals have the strongest Preservation ratings yet detected on animal life forms. Buy today!

[KChan she/her]

... That... is really kind of disturbing, if you think about it. And just imagine what PETA's campaigns on Scadrial would be like:

"I'd rather go naked than be spiked!"

Doesn't quite have the same effect, I think.

[happyman he/him]

... That... is really kind of disturbing, if you think about it. And just imagine what PETA's campaigns on Scadrial would be like:

"I'd rather go naked than be spiked!"

Doesn't quite have the same effect, I think.

Yes, because killing them and eating them to survive for about two days is so much more ethical.

PETA's reaction would probably be like that. Wow.

In reality (well, Brandon's reality) it would probably be dangerous and stupid, if you could ever figure out how to do it. The physical side effects might be quite extreme.

[Aashyma she/her]

Yes, because killing them and eating them to survive for about two days is so much more ethical.

PETA's reaction would probably be like that. Wow.

In reality (well, Brandon's reality) it would probably be dangerous and stupid, if you could ever figure out how to do it. The physical side effects might be quite extreme.

Since human pikes used over and over brought some measure of hmanity to the koloss, wouldn't animal spikes dehumanise you?

[Zas678 he/him]

Not to mention the fact that you're reusing pieces of an animal's soul. But then again, they do do that all the time in Hallandren.

But I think that the economic value of it would eventually overwhelm the moral qualms of it. At least for a while.

[happyman he/him]

Since human pikes used over and over brought some measure of hmanity to the koloss, wouldn't animal spikes dehumanise you?

That's pretty much what I meant, yeah.

I mean, look at it. Both Inquisitors and Koloss start human, but the physical side effects from spiked humans are extreme and repugnant, and it leaves them open to control by a sufficient number of Mistings, let alone powerful Mistborn. There's no reason to think that animal Hemalurgy wouldn't have similar side effects. I suspect that they would actually be nastier because the power you are splicing on is more mismatched from your true nature.

EDIT: Either that, or animal contributions wouldn't be as effective. I actually think that makes more sense: To get anything useful out of animal contributions would require more spikes and more changes, leaving yourself more vulnerable for the same net gain.

Edited September 3, 2011 by happyman