Radiant Weapons

[The Grumpy Elantrian]

So in Kal's fight with Szeth, we saw that Syl was capable of taking many forms, namely as a sword, spear, dagger, and shield. 

After reading this I got the impression that a spren can take on the form of essentially any weapon for the radiant. But as I thought about this I began to wonder if it is the same for ranged weapons.

I'm sure a spren could take the form of a bow, or crossbow or whatever, but if they did how exactly does it work? Does the spren act as the bow and the arrows? Or simply the bow and you have to use regular arrows? Or could you use a regular bow with your spren acting as the arrows?

Obviously, the spren being both is the more useful alternative, but I'm dubious as to whether the spren could actually manage it.

Anyway, I hope someone knows more about this and can help me out. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Mistborn Radiant

[Calderis]

It's one or the other, and the need to be a single solid piece. Being two separate items is effectively splitting the Sprens soul in two. So... 

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Questioner

On the nature of shardblades, to an extent, can a live blade be split without harming it's source, so to speak?

Brandon Sanderson

Can a live blade split? What do you mean, split?

Questioner

Make itself into two weapons.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, can a blade be forged into two weapons. A shardblade.

Questioner

Does it absolutely need a connection, or can it become two?

Brandon Sanderson

So, shardblades becoming two shardblades would require slicing in half a soul, which would not be very fun for the spren. Okay?

Questioner

So it's possible. *laughter*

Brandon Sanderson

So it's technically possible to take hydrogen and to turn it into plutonium with our current technology. It would cost more money than, like, the budget of NASA to do it for, y'know, one atom. So there are things that are possible, but-- Yes it is possible. This is not something that would be easy or very useful to do.

source

As to the type of weapons, this is the most recent thread I could find. 

 

[Fanghur Rahl]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

It's one or the other, and the need to be a single solid piece. Being two separate items is effectively splitting the Sprens soul in two. So... 

As to the type of weapons, this is the most recent thread I could find. 

 

Isn’t perception most important though? I mean if we’re being technically, a spear or hammer or shield is several distinct things attached together (even a sword is a composite item), but it would still only have one soul in Shadesmar because that’s how people perceive it. Couldn’t it be the same with a Shardbow and Arrow? The only real difference is that the arrows aren’t in direct contact with the bow whereas a spear tip is in direct contact with the shaft.

’Bow and arrow’ could be argued as being a single concept.

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

’Bow and arrow’ could be argued as being a single concept.

In this case I don't think it's a matter of the "concept." A spear could be made of solid metal. A sword as well. A bow and arrow are two distinct objects. 

If a Pen would be hard for a spren to be, a crossbow would be difficult as well, and those are at least parts that work to make a single whole. 

Quote

Questioner

*cant be heard*

Brandon Sanderson

The way it works in my head canon right now, which I haven't written it so if it changes, no. The other thing is getting complex systems is going to be harder for a lot of Spren. There are legends that reference that they were able to do bows in the past, which includes a string. Everyone is like "but they're not metal, how does that work." Complex structures, even the mechanics of a pen is not something that we have proof that they could even do. If they did do it, they wouldn't *brandon stumbling over his words*.

Footnote: The question was likely about if Shardbows could exist
source

 

[Fanghur Rahl]

I guess that’s true. But if nothing else, I don’t see why Syl couldn’t turn into either a bow (string included) OR an arrow, even if she couldn’t be both simultaneously (although I can’t help but get a rather amusing image in my head of her transforming into a kind of Shard-harpoon bow, since technically the arrow is connected to the bow/gun itself by the cable. That’s be kinda funny.

[Weltall]

I think a Sylpoongun might run into the upper limit on how big a spren can get, even before you get into the question of whether three separate bits with differing properties (gun, cable and spear) could work. And how you'd actually launch the last one and why you wouldn't just make her a javelin and throw her, or go with the common suggestion of a Shardchakram... But you made me crack up just thinking of that word, so bravo. xD

[Fanghur Rahl]

I just imagine Ba-Ado-Mishram or one of the other Unmade somehow blocking Kaladin from accessing his surge, so he has to improvise by having Syl transforming into a set of SylODM gear (that actually sounds wrong if you say it out loud) that he uses to zip around the city like Captain Levi. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Fanghur Rahl

[tmnsquirtle]

15 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

I just imagine Ba-Ado-Mishram or one of the other Unmade somehow blocking Kaladin from accessing his surge, so he has to improvise by having Syl transforming into a set of SylODM gear (that actually sounds wrong if you say it out loud) that he uses to zip around the city like Captain Levi. 

I read it as Syl-Odium. Having not seen attack on titan, I was extremely confused for a second there.

[Fanghur Rahl]

I only realized the unintended pun after I’d posted it. lol.

[Aeshdan]

Hmm... Syl becoming an arrow might actually be really effective, since Radiants can resummons their Blade instantly. Fire the arrow, and then just call her back and fire again. 

[Calderis]

4 minutes ago, ReaderAt2046 said:

Hmm... Syl becoming an arrow might actually be really effective, since Radiants can resummons their Blade instantly. Fire the arrow, and then just call her back and fire again. 

The issue is the width of the cutting area. An arrow is going to just punch through, and unless it's a headshot it's probably not going to do much. Like the knife wou ds that Kal inflicts on Szeth in the end of WoR, which Szeth couldn't heal.

Its why I push the chakram idea. A multiple foot wide bladed ring is much more likely to sever a limb or the spine. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Calderis

[CrazyRioter]

I guess it depends on how good you are with a bow and arrow. Rock could make good use of a Shardarrow I imagine.

And hitting any of their internal organs would mess them up pretty good in the long run if not in the short run.

[Johhny_Eastland]

On 8/21/2018 at 3:14 PM, Weltall said:

I think a Sylpoongun might run into the upper limit on how big a spren can get, even before you get into the question of whether three separate bits with differing properties (gun, cable and spear) could work. 

The Sylpoongun would be cool to see! Its unfortunate that they dont have that level of technology. I think the most likely and useful ranged weapon (not bow and arrow type ranged) would be the Chain and Sylckle . It would probably be a more effective ranged weapon than a bow and arrow for Roshar. 

[Fanghur Rahl]

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

The issue is the width of the cutting area. An arrow is going to just punch through, and unless it's a headshot it's probably not going to do much. Like the knife wou ds that Kal inflicts on Szeth in the end of WoR, which Szeth couldn't heal.

Its why I push the chakram idea. A multiple foot wide bladed ring is much more likely to sever a limb or the spine. 

Could the Spren change shape into something much larger the instant the arrow enters the target? Effectively bisecting them from the inside?

[Calderis]

3 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Could the Spren change shape into something much larger the instant the arrow enters the target? Effectively bisecting them from the inside?

So far we've never seen a blade manifest and/or change shape when not on physical contact with the Radiant. I personally don't think they can. 

If they can then sure that would work fine, but at the point why do they need to be wielded at all? 

[Fanghur Rahl]

I don’t see why they couldn’t though. After all, Spren aren’t ‘touching’ their Radiant when they first turn into a Shardblade. At least not physically. They’re explicitly described as forming from *mist* and then dropping into the Shardbearer’s waiting hand (I don’t know if ‘mist’ was the exact term, but something like that).

Might make for an interesting question for Brandon.

[little wheel]

12 hours ago, Johhny_Eastland said:

The Sylpoongun would be cool to see! Its unfortunate that they dont have that level of technology. I think the most likely and useful ranged weapon (not bow and arrow type ranged) would be the Chain and Sylckle . It would probably be a more effective ranged weapon than a bow and arrow for Roshar. 

You see, everyone thinks that the sickle is thrown, but it's actually the ball at the end of the chain which is thrown. Stupid movies destroying facts.

[Johhny_Eastland]

2 minutes ago, Whatintarnationspren said:

You see, everyone thinks that the sickle is thrown, but it's actually the ball at the end of the chain which is thrown. Stupid movies destroying facts.

Oh I remember lol. But wouldn't the ball and chain still have the same effect? Im pretty sure that it would pass through you the same as a shardblade (unprotected skin that is). Unless it acts 100% differently because its a blunt object. Would a Shardhammer have the same effect as a shardblade since its blunt?

[little wheel]

In OB, when Radiant and Adolin are about to duel, Radiant has Pattern dull his blade. So, if you wanted to, you could have the ball be sharp, but the purpose of the ball is to stun, whereas the sickle is what you would get up close with and silently finish your target off.

[CrazyRioter]

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So, a Radiant's blade. When it takes other forms, does it take on any different properties? So, like, if Kaladin beat someone with the butt of his Sylspear, would it still do something in regards to the soul?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Would he still hit the soul? That is theoretically possible to make happen. It requires a lot of work. That is theoretically possible.

source

 So you can hit somebody in the soul with a Shardweapon in a blunt form but it's not really the default.

[Johhny_Eastland]

3 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

 So you can hit somebody in the soul with a Shardweapon in a blunt form but it's not really the default.

Well that WoB is pretty definitive lol. So the only weapon that works for what I'm thinking is the Kyoketsu-shoge. While it has the same premise as the chain and sickle the blade is whats thrown. I know I had seen it somewhere and I lumped it in my mind with the chain and sickle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoketsu-shoge 

[Watchcry]

I believe one of the radiants will swear oaths of two orders, giving them access to two shard weapons. It is possible, but extremely difficult, as they'd have to ensure their oaths don't conflict. 

If this happens, one spren can be a bow, the other the arrow; or one a sword, the other a shield. 

Some people believe Kaladin could speak the Edgedancer oaths without breaking his Windrunner ones. That would be interesting.