Breaths and their connection to the Cosmere. And some Speculations.

[Khyrindor he/him]

So over the break I read Warbreaker. I read it once a while back, but I was stupid back then and didn't pay attention to half the stuff in it. However, this time around, I picked up on a TON of things that I felt the need to post on here. There will be some theories in here, and I neglect to put this on the Warbreaker Forum because it is much less used.

 

As I went through, I folded the pages when I found something interesting (don`t be mad, it is a paperback). I started doing this about a third of the way through, so forgive me if I missed anything and please point it out if its relevant.

 

NOTE: There are extensive spoilers here, obviously, and this will be a long post.

 

The first thing I noticed while reading a Lightsong POV is that he kept on using instincts to notice and not reveal information. I noticed this when he ... noticed the trapdoor and didn`t tell the priest that were there.

 

 

 

A trapdoor, he thought with sudden shock. The priest was watching him closely. This patch isn't as new as the other ones back there. It's only new in relation to the other boards. 

 

Lightsong crawled along the floor, deliberately ignoring the door in the floor. Once again, unexpected instincts warned him not to reveal what he'd discovered. Why was he so wary all of a sudden? Was it the influence of his violent dreams and imagery from the painting earlier? Or was it something more? He felt as if he were dredging deep within himself, pulling forth an awareness he had never before needed. 

 

Page 293, paragraphs 6 and 7. Paperback edition.

 

I noticed a few more of these throughout the book, but this is the most important. I will find them if you guys ask though. Now, we know later in the story that Lightsong used to be a scribe who sniffed out robberies for nobles etc. This (to me) doesn't account for this instinct, so it makes me wonder if it is another benefit of being returned, having a lot of Breath, having a Divine Breath, or perhaps if Endowment was trying to communicate with him.

 

 

The next page I folded is when Lightsong is musing about how the Returned look.

 

 

 

. . . . Did Returned looks have something to do with the way society saw them? Perhaps their version of beauty? That would certainly explain Blushweaver.

 

Page 350, paragraph 2.

 

This I marked because it reminded me of the powers of observation and the way the spren worked. This point is proven later towards the end, when Vasher tells Vivenna about this as well.

 

 

I folded down page 360 because of a Slumlord named Rira. I seemed to remember a thread somewhere that mentioned a Rira in Words of Radiance or TwoK. It may just be the country that Kaladin mentioned when thinking about Adolin's hair though. I might also be crazy. For the record I thought that if he was somewhere else, then he must be a Worldhopper, and my mind got away from me a bit.

 

 

I folded down the beginning and end of the Hoid conversation as well. Due to events later in the book and how Hoid has a knack at being places, it seems stretched for me to believe that he wasn't on Nealthis for the Manywar and the events that happened there and I wondered why he didn't tell the whole truth to Lightsong and Siri.

 

Pages 373-384.

 

 

This next fold is when Vasher kidnaps Vivenna. Now, she mentioned before I started folding that she couldn't sense Jewels because she is a drab. I remembered this and marked the page because she mentioned Vasher approaching her with a lot of Breath. 

 

WoR spoiler:

 

In the Zahel interlude (Vasher), he sensed Kaladin approaching, even though he didn't have any Breaths, as well as mentioning that he had been able to sense Syl.

 

I'm too lazy to get the exact quote from the book at the moment, but I triple-checked earlier. I will (maybe tomorrow) make a thread dedicated to a Vasher theory, and I will put the link down here as well.

 

 

I folded the pages where Vasher explains most of the BioChromatic entities to Vivenna. 507 and 508.

 

 

I folded 513 because of Lightsong's thoughts at the beginning of the chapter.

 

 

 

What would happen if too many others Returned before we killed ourselves? he thought idly. Would they build more palaces? As far as he knew, there had always been enough space. 

 

Can there only be a certain number? This would be a good question for Brandon in my opinion. Does it have something to do with the power of belief/observation that seems to be an important role in the Cosmere?

 

 

Next worthy point of mine:

 

 

 

Llarimar raised an eyebrow. "The value in something relates to how it is treated, Your Grace. If you see these items as junk, then they are, regardless of what someone would pay for them." 

 

This seems like WAY to much of a coincidence to the topic of the power of belief, and how an object views itself to not post it.

 

Page 567

 

 

Thanks for your time, and sorry if these have been brought to light before

Edited April 6, 2014 by Khyrindor

[Khyrindor he/him]

EDIT: (It wouldn't save on the origional) I realize it has nothing to do with the title, can someone tell me how to rename it?

[WeiryWriter he/him]

On the first bit, I actually think those instincts make perfect sense as coming from his time as a scribe.  That entire plot arc is about Lightsong having these instincts and desires (he has to solve the mystery) that are a direct result of his past life, I don't see how this is any different.
 
We have WoB on the connections between Returned and spren:

Kurkistan

Are the changing beauty standards of Returned and the "plausibility" of Forgeries determined by the same kind of "cognitive ideals or concepts which have taken on literal personification over time" that some types of Spren represent?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. These things all work according to the same fundamental framework.

 

(source)

 

Yeah the Rira on Roshar is a nation, and not a character.

 

(To rename the thread you need to click on the "Topic Moderation" link, it should be above the OP)

[Shardbearer he/him]

I believe lifesense sees investiture. Nalthians with breath have innate investiture, drabs have lost that.

 

Rosharians also have innate investiture, and Kaladin has stormlight on top of that.

 

I would guess that spren are cognitive aspects brought partially into the Physical Realm through investiture. So Zahel can sense that.

[Khyrindor he/him]

Shardbearer, this was my thought too, but how does Vasher transfer stormlight into Breaths in order to sense things? Is it the spiritual DNA? Because it seems to me like magic would change if you go to another world, unless you find a way around it, because or the Shards and their focus. Like how being far from Elantris dwindles your power, the same goes for Shardworlds.

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

Shardbearer, this was my thought too, but how does Vasher transfer stormlight into Breaths in order to sense things? Is it the spiritual DNA? Because it seems to me like magic would change if you go to another world, unless you find a way around it, because or the Shards and their focus. Like how being far from Elantris dwindles your power, the same goes for Shardworlds.

All it takes is 1 Breath for the First Heightening and Life Sense. Even if he's consuming Stormlight now instead of Breaths, I'm sure he has a couple Breaths just in case.

As for magic changing, we've got at least a few instances of magic staying the same on other worlds. Hoid Soothes people on Roshar with metals, and his Breaths bring him perfect pitch just like normal.

[Khyrindor he/him]

(Sorry about the double post)

Some of my other thoughts that I forgot to put down:

Lightsong (before he returned) was in the Spiritual realm. It made me wonder if Kelsier came across Endowment could he Return? And if he could, would he still have his Mistborn powers?

Would taking control of Thousands of Lifeless soldiers feel like holding Koloss?

One of the biggest things while reading Vasher's revelation was that, since hes hundreds of years old, is that he might have been on Roshar before. Where else would he have gotten the wealth of Investitiure in the form of Breaths and how does he know so much about Investiture in the storms?

[Aonar he/him]

Lightsong (before he returned) was in the Spiritual realm. It made me wonder if Kelsier came across Endowment could he Return? And if he could, would he still have his Mistborn powers?

Would taking control of Thousands of Lifeless soldiers feel like holding Koloss?

 

One of the biggest things while reading Vasher's revelation was that, since hes hundreds of years old, is that he might have been on Roshar before. Where else would he have gotten the wealth of Investitiure in the form of Breaths and how does he know so much about Investiture in the storms?

 

Taking these in order:

 

1. Short answer: no. Slightly longer answer: Kell's too long dead. The Returned's Divine Breath heals the body and maintains the soul's connection to it. Kelsier couldn't Return without direct intervention on Endowment's part, seeing how he doesn't have a body to Return into. If a Mistborn were to Return, though, they would most likely retain their abilities. Unless of course the Investitures interact strangely and give them something completely new.

 

2. Once again, the short answer is no. Lifeless aren't "controlled," Lifeless are Commanded. They're really little more than automatons; they just follow instructions.

 

3. His immortality also means there's no cap on how long he has to gather Breaths or learn about Roshar. It's implied that he was ancient when the Manyway started, and that was a half millennium before the events of Warbreaker. We have no idea the time difference between Warbreaker and The Way of Kings, for all we know Vasher's been there since the last Desolation.

 

Porridge: Umm... First Heightening is fifty Breaths. However, fifty Breaths worth of Investiture isn't noticeable to anyone who isn't Invested themselves. Each Breath endows some degree of lifesense though, so it probably doesn't take that many to sense a spren.

Edited April 6, 2014 by AonarFaileas

[Khyrindor he/him]

All it takes is 1 Breath for the First Heightening and Life Sense. Even if he's consuming Stormlight now instead of Breaths, I'm sure he has a couple Breaths just in case.

As for magic changing, we've got at least a few instances of magic staying the same on other worlds. Hoid Soothes people on Roshar with metals, and his Breaths bring him perfect pitch just like normal.

 

You get basic abilities depending on how many Breaths you have, but First Heightening is 50. I think Hoid is an exception to be honest.

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

Wait, really? I feel stupid now.

[Khyrindor he/him]

One weird thing though: Siri can see the God King's aura. And on the cover she is Breathing.

[Asha'man Logain]

One minor point, Vasher is not turning stormlight into Breaths, he is using the stormlight to fuel his need to consume investiture instead of the Breaths he has. I would think it likely that he still has a large number of breaths, but uses stormlight to feed himself and keeps the Breaths for the powers it gives him.

[Goatborn he/him]

One weird thing though: Siri can see the God King's aura. And on the cover she is Breathing.

 

But the God King has a stonkingly great amount of Breath, so much so to be obvious to anyone. The cover art isn't generally taken as canon; at least I don't. I wonder if the God King could use Vasher's knowledge/the innate or intuitive Breath-use to bestow a fraction of his power onto Siri?

[Tempus]

You can bestow partial amounts of breath by awakening some object, then giving away your breath, the taking the breath back from the awakened object.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Tempus