Assigning KR based on personalities..

[Maffu17 he/him]

A while ago on Stormblessed I posted a list of characters and using their personalities so far and the Ars Arcanum tried to work out what the future had in store for them. This is of course Pre-WoR. 

 

Protecting, Leading - Kaladin (protecting and leading bridgemen)

Just, Confident - Adolin (saving prostitute and extreme confidence in his dueling)

Brave, Obedient - Renarin (enter a fight with a Greatshell unarmored to help his family, yet retreated when ordered to)

Loving, Healing - Lirin (very loving and a dab hand with a bonesaw)

Learned, Giving - Jasnah (who is more learned than Yassy, and giving in the instruction of the uneducated thicko shallon)

Creative, Honest - Shallon (creative definitely, honest eventually )

Wise, Careful - Navani (very wise in her council to Dalinar, and if she wasn't careful an exploding spren would have messed up her pretty face years ago)

Resolute, Builder - Dalinar (firm (mostly) in the face of madness and alienation by his kin, and building a strong foundation for alethcar's future)

Dependable, Resourceful - Lopen (shown many times his dependability and who's more resourceful than a man with a million cousins?)

Pious, Guiding - Teft (pious to the envisagers belief's (at least he is now), and guiding in Kaladin's powers, if not very useful)

 

I was just wondering if there's a post on this anywhere here in 17thshard, I think by now many more parallels can be drawn and i'm interested in seeing how everything's been cross referenced with the new input. 

[Tempus]

Post WoR, we've got something more like...

 

Protecting, Leading - Kaladin
Just, Confident - Szeth
Brave, Obedient - Adolin (Dueling, obedient to his father even with his father says not to duel)
Loving, Healing - Lift
Learned, Giving - Renarin
 

Creative, Honest - Shallan
Wise, Careful - Jasnah
Resolute, Builder - The Person Who Calls Themselves Taln™ or the unknown person of import
Dependable, Resourceful - The Person Who Calls Themselves Taln™ or the unknown person of import
Pious, Guiding - Dalinar

 

The ones without descriptions are confirmed to that corresponding order of Knights Radiant. The other unknown person of import may or may not be Eshonai. It's suspected that the person who calls themselves Taln would be connected with the Stonewards (Dependable, Resourceful).

 

Note that the whole premise of the Knights Radiant qualities is that people who can surgebind are broken, and before they live up to their ideals they are often in some ways the opposite of the expected qualities, or rejecting them. Like how when Kaladin got the slave brand he began to reject responsibility, but in the end couldn't be that person and ended up taking care of Bridge 4. Or how Shallan became the exact opposite of honest. Or how Dalinar didn't want to guide the other highprinces, and didn't want to acknowledge his visions, and made a right mess of things avoiding it. Etc.

[anaroth85]

I like your personalities that you have listed, but in my mind personalities would relate with their 2 abilities. i.e, Kaladin should shard 1 trait with Dalinar, and one with Szeth, and Shallon should share with Jasnah and Renarin.

 

So something like Shallon, creative and Learned, she shares learned with Jasnah and creative with Renarin (no proof of this just an example)

 

 

I don't know I like what you have proposed but that was the first thing that came to my drunken mind.

[Tempus]

The personalities listed are associated with the various essences in the Ars Arcanum, which in turn are associated each with a Herald and order of Knights Radiant. The idea here was to predict who would be in what order by personality. Since many orders were revealed in Words of Radiance, it's a little moot.

[anaroth85]

Ah that makes sense, I was thinking Personality = Abilities, and which 2 abilities puts you in a certain KR.

[Maffu17 he/him]

I think the Ars Arcanum can tell us a lot about what characters are destined to become which Radiants. I found this table on another thread here but have lost it now, much thanks to whoever provided it.

 

 

 

There definitely seems to be a crossover with personalities as there are in powers. Kaladin is Protecting / Leading but also Just and Guiding (from the 2 columns either side of his).

Jasnah is Wise / Careful but also Creative/ Honest and Resolute/Builder.

Shallan is Creative / Honest but also Learned/Giving and Wise/Careful.

 

However each character is so multi-faceted it's easy to attribute any attribute you want to almost any person. (sorry for the (homograph?)), but going on their most distinctive traits I think it may still be possible to ascertain the Orders they will fall into if you restrict personality to the 6 within range.

 

Anyway going on my previous list with the new data from WoR i'd at least say

 

Adolin - Skybreaker (just/confident  protecting/leading  brave/obedient)

 

Lirin - Edgedancer (loving/healing   brave/obedient  learned/giving)

 

 

bah have to go out now, i'll submit this unfinished for your speculation anyway

[Aleksiel]

...

 

There are WoB that the Dalinar has made only the second oath as a Bondsmith, so the space for the third one should be empty.

 

 

I've been wondering if one's personality is as important as the attributes.  Renarin fits very well the description of Truthwatchers, but I wouldn't say learned/giving are qualities I associate with him that much. 

[Tempus]

The attributes are absolutely important. It would not be incorrect to sum up the Stormlight Archive so far as "People who are emotionally broken gain magic powers based on their brokenness, and attempt to repair themselves." Forget all the cool plotting, that is very much the heart of the books.

[thejopen27 he/him]

To me, at this point in the story Szeth is neither Just or Confident.  Szeth kills anyone who gets in his way and blindly follows order.  He has his own internal code and law but he ignores all outside laws and has no regard for whether someone is innocent or not.  Szeth is not only unconfident but he is doubting everything he knows at the moment.  Now I'm not saying that the attributes don't matter, I'm saying that Szeth is not currently fulfilling them.  As he is now Szeth is not a true Skybreaker and will not draw a Highspren until he starts to heal from his breaking or not at all.

 

Adolin, if he is a Radiant at all, I see as a Stoneward or a Releaser.

[Ren he/him]

To me, at this point in the story Szeth is neither Just or Confident.  Szeth kills anyone who gets in his way and blindly follows order.  He has his own internal code and law but he ignores all outside laws and has no regard for whether someone is innocent or not.  Szeth is not only unconfident but he is doubting everything he knows at the moment.  Now I'm not saying that the attributes don't matter, I'm saying that Szeth is not currently fulfilling them.  As he is now Szeth is not a true Skybreaker and will not draw a Highspren until he starts to heal from his breaking or not at all.

 

Adolin, if he is a Radiant at all, I see as a Stoneward or a Releaser.

My opinion is that Skybreakers don't really follow the law of men, like the law of Shinovar and Alethkar. Because in every country there are different laws that contradict with different country laws. Instead, I believe there were some Knight Radiants laws or something, that they are following.

To follow the law, means to follow a strict code and none does that better than Szeth. Perhaps, we'll see in Book 3 if Szeth is worthy of being a Skybreaker. Who knows, he might turn out to be something unexpected. ^^

Edited April 5, 2014 by Ren

[Tempus]

The fact that Szeth is the exact opposite in some ways and exact same in others of the ideals the Skybreakers represent is exactly the point. Szeth has a broken personality, went through a recently traumatic emotional experience (learning he was named truthless for no reason), and has been presented with a splinter to form a Nahel bond with (looking at you, big black!). The nature of his personality and the part that requires repair is precisely suited to the Skybreakers.

[Necromancer he/him]

Just, Confident - Szeth

 

Just - Szeth

 

Just - Szeth

 

what

[Aleksiel]

 

Just, Confident - Szeth

 

Just - Szeth

 

Just - Szeth

 

what

 

 

In the meaning that Szeth follows the law to the letter, despite the fact it is a terrible thing to do all things considered. Szeth is a quite twisted version of a Skybreaker. 

[Maffu17 he/him]

There are WoB that the Dalinar has made only the second oath as a Bondsmith, so the space for the third one should be empty.

 

Yea sorry about that Aleksiel, I copied the table for the attributes I didn't really notice the Ideals, maybe the purpose of the table was someone theorising about them, as I said I can't find the thread to credit the creator.

 

 

Tempus made a point I was thinking also, Kaladin's attribute is Protecting, and and he broke when he failed to save the people around him.

Szeth's attribute is Just, and his torture has been the murder of innocent people.

 

Lift - Edgedancer (Loving/Healing    Brave/Obedient    Learned/Giving)

 

Rock - Stoneward (Dependable/Resourceful   Pious/Guiding   Resolute/Builder)

 

Tvlakv - Elsecaller (Wise/Careful    Creative/Honest    Resolute/Builder)  (I crowbarred him in because he's had a lot of page time and i think deep down he's got a lot of potential, plus it would fun to see a travelling merchant who can teleport!)

 

 

It begins to fall apart with Renarin who I thought would be a Dustbringer for sure based on the attributes, but then he's had a lot of time in the shadows not really making his own decisions (except to be Brave and Obedient (grrr!)).

 

It also difficult to plot any potential powers to Elhokar because he's very rarely shown any positive emotions.

 

All in all I'm not sure there are any answers to get from comparing the personalities at this point, it seems too hit and miss, maybe it will all come together in the future but given Brandon's style of writing the characters are going to become more developed and harder to pin down than they were at the end of WoK, making the attributes less useful as time goes by.

[Numb]

As a side topic does anyone else feel that Szeth punishment doesn't really fit what we know of the Shin people?

[Maffu17 he/him]

What we know of the Shin people could all be written on Lopen's left nub.

 

However their punishment does not fit the peaceful zen monk image they project to visiting merchants. Szeth's book is gonna be aymayzing!