Units of Investiture?

[TheArcanist he/him]

I actually think we can quantify every single form of Investiture we've run into so far. It depends on how they all connect. I've no idea if this is correct or not, but this is my interpretation of how they all link up at the moment.

*****

 

Now, Investiture is a Cosmere-wide universal constant. One planet may be more heavily invested than another, and out of the four Greater Shardworlds we've seen Invested [With Splintered or Non-Splintered Shards], Roshar is the most heavily invested, and Scadrial the least heavily. I am unsure how heavily Invested Sel is as while it does have a very loose, freeform magic in the form of AonDor- and related systems -it's also regionally locked, the local Shards have been Splintered, and for whatever reason it is very difficult to visit.

 

Apparently not so difficult that Wit couldn't arrive then leave again, and the 17th Shard recruit Galladon. Scadrial is an unusual case, with relatively minor levels of Investiture, and therefore highly derived magic systems. The farthest from the original Yolish systems of any we've seen. On a scale of 1-4, these are the worlds.

 

1: Scadrial [Mistborn]

2: Nalthis [Warbreaker]

3: Sel [Elantris]

4: Roshar [The Stormlight Archives]

 

The easiest form of conversion is the most obvious. As Vasher is surviving with no negative repercussions on Roshar, there has to be an easy conversion rate of Breath to Stormlight. Now, Elantrians are most easily compared to a Type I BioChromatic Entity, commonly referred to as Returned. Following that logic, then the amount of Dor used to complete the Shaod would be equivalent to 2,000 breaths or one Divine Breath, and the amount of Dor used to keep an Elantrian alive day-to-day would be a seventh of a Breath. This could then be equated to a certain volume of Mist, which could then be equated to a certain mass of metal.

 

Here are my personal suggestions for ways to measure Investiture world-to-world.

 

Roshar: Marks of the smallest denomination made from a greatshell gemheart measured immediately after a highstorm. You would need to find measure the amount of Stormlight each of the Ten Gems could hold, and then determine an equivalent rate from gem-to-gem. Having determined this, you could figure out how much Stormlight equates to a single Breath. You could also try and determine how much Stormlight is needed to perform a certain Surge. This would be easiest with the Surge of Gravitation, I think.

 

Nalthis: Having determined the conversion rate of Stormlight to Breath, there's little needed to do here to measure Nalthis' Investiture. We already have a sliding scale in the form of the Heightenings to equate to power. However, measuring how many Breaths are needed to create one kind of Type III Awakened object as opposed to another may be a bit more difficult. You would need to use the same command every time. If measuring the Breath needed to sustain a Type I Awakened Object [Returned] it would be best to use a young, vivacious Breath. Likely this would be best for measuring Awakening as well.

 

Sel: The Dor used in the Shaod is most likely equivalent to a single Divine Breath, or the Fifth Heightening [That is to say 2,000 Breaths], while the Dor used to sustain an Elantrian on a day-to-day basis would be roughly equivalent to a seventh of a Breath. As it is specifically said in Elantris that each Aon has a particular wavelength, frequency, and pulse length it may be possible to use an Aon and compare it to the power-level of a specific colour for Awakening, or how much Stormlight is consumed by a particular effect of the Surge of Illumination.

 

Scadrial: Having a Seeker on staff during these experiments would be best, as with practice a Seeker can determine the wavelengths between different kinds of Allomancy and even other forms of magic. [There's a WOB about this that I can't find at the moment] Each metal has a different static burn time which can be measured. This could be compared to the decay rate of Stormlight inside a mark. Of course, as Feruchemical Nicrosil can directly contain Investiture, it would probably be best to use that as a baseline- measuring how much Scadrian Allomantic Investiture [Measured in volume of Mist] is available for a certain mass of metal.

 

So- what do you guys think? Do you think I'm onto something here?

Edited April 17, 2014 by TheArcanist

[Tempus]

Sel is stated as having high investiture, similar to Roshar.

[TheArcanist he/him]

Hmm... I should probably switch around Sel and Nalthis then. What about the rest of my take on the theory?

Edited April 17, 2014 by TheArcanist

[Tempus]

I'm not convinced about several points.

 

• The Returned return because they are given a splinter, called the Divine Breath, given directly by the Shard. The known splinters on Sel are Seons and Skaze. We have no indication that the transformation of the Shaod is caused by Elantrians gaining some kind of splinter, or if it were who would grant those splinters.

 

• We don't have any particular proof that splinters have the same investiture from planet to planet - in fact the difference in power for Spren strongly suggests that splinters are entirely capable of being very different power levels. Veggiespren, for example, have a power level lower than Ricespren, which have a power level over 9000¹. 

 

• Vasher is indeed on Roshar, and is probably using stormlight to fuel himself. I even wrote a good theory² on how that could work. While he probably understands how much stormlight is roughly equivalent to a Breath, in a very non-scientific way (messing it up would get him killed, remember), we certainly don't know.

 

• As stated in the book, science on Roshar is insufficient to allow for classification and fabrication of gemstones consistent enough to maintain exact amounts of stormlight. We also don't know if highstorms power gems equally depending on storm intensity, location, duration in the storm, etc... There's also the decay rate for stormlight, which is a significant factor in any calculations

 

• Scadrians each have different allomantic strength, making burn time insufficient as an objective measuring system. Feruchemical nicrosil should work, as feruchemy is dependent on the quality/size of the metalmind, which is a fairly simple process to codify as a standard.

 

 

 

¹ All a lie.

² I'm biased, of course. I wrote it. Here it is. 

[Robot Aztec]

 

But how do you compare that exactly once it's been a while since the last Highstorm?

suck out stormlight from half-drain gems put all stomrlight into STANDARD GEM that it can handle then take extra stormlight and put into RESERVE gem end with no stormlight in kal and a full STANDARD GEM and then suck out all stormlight from STANDARD GEM right away so full STANDARD in kal and then test

[BreerEeto he/him]

An allomancer's strength decays through the bloodline, right? So someone who just burned the bead to make them a full power misborn will be something like 3 times stronger than someone 3 generations down in their bloodline from that point on, if I'm correct. So Allowmancy would just need a family history to track the strength of one's Allomantic abilities mathmatically. Someone of 6th decent will certainly be stronger than someone of 16th.

[TheArcanist he/him]

Hmm... we need to find out the decay rate of allomantic strength.

[Moogle]

An allomancer's strength decays through the bloodline, right? So someone who just burned the bead to make them a full power misborn will be something like 3 times stronger than someone 3 generations down in their bloodline from that point on, if I'm correct. So Allowmancy would just need a family history to track the strength of one's Allomantic abilities mathmatically. Someone of 6th decent will certainly be stronger than someone of 16th.

 

This is, unfortunately, not clear at all. We don't know if you can quantify things as people being 1/n times as strong n generations down, and the mists actually add Investiture when they Snap people, so it's possible there's a minimum amount of power that Allomancers will never go below. It's also possible that two lerasium Mistborn would have a child that was just as strong as them.

[TheArcanist he/him]

That's entirely likely. I mean, that's how the Keepers managed to keep Feruchemy so strong over the course of Rashek's rule. It was only after the Terris people began to spread out among everyone else following the Final Ascension that Ferrings began to appear.

[Chromium Compounder]

That's entirely likely. I mean, that's how the Keepers managed to keep Feruchemy so strong over the course of Rashek's rule. It was only after the Terris people began to spread out among everyone else following the Final Ascension that Ferrings began to appear.

Do we have WoB on that?  I know that's what is responsible for the appearance of Twinborn.  You have to have Terris and non-Terris blood in order to have access to both Feruchemy and Allomancy, but if there were still some pureblood Terris they could conceivably be full Feruchemists.  Unfortunately, at the beginning of AoL Wax says that the most anyone can have is a single metal from each art.  That would mean that Twinborn and Ferrings would be all of the Feruchemists in modern Scadrial.  

 

I've been wondering about that.  We know that Spook was the last Mistborn, and Sazed was most likely the last full Feruchemist.  Why?  Did the Allomantic and Feruchemical bloodlines both get too thin at that point?  Or did Harmony do something to intentionally prevent any one person from having too much power?

[TheArcanist he/him]

I think it was in the annotations for one of the books, but I'd have to track down the exact quote. Spook was made a full Mistborn of the kind that Vin and Kelsier were, I think. Elend was the last Lerasium Mistborn- that is to say, the last Pure Allomancer. Presumably, some noble families survived too, but the chances of getting a Mistborn were already extremely rare. We don't really know what happened to the Feruchemists, but most were members of the Keepers, and the Keepers were slaughtered by the Inquisitors after Ruin was released. I think the bloodlines are just too diluted, and Alloy of Law is roughly 300 years after Hero of Ages, so if the bloodlines are to be re-invigorated in a way that doesn't involve Harmony's intercession, it will be another 700 years until the Well is ready again. That is, unless Sazed becoming Harmony didn't completely change the nature of Preservation's Shardpool. Besides, the 'modern' trilogy has a Misting S.W.A.T. team against a Mistborn serial killer, so I think the power will be coming back.

 

In any case- we still need to figure out set, stable, standard ways to measure and compare each magic system. That don't involve asking Hoid or a Shard.

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

I think it was in the annotations for one of the books, but I'd have to track down the exact quote. Spook was made a full Mistborn of the kind that Vin and Kelsier were, I think. Elend was the last Lerasium Mistborn- that is to say, the last Pure Allomancer. Presumably, some noble families survived too, but the chances of getting a Mistborn were already extremely rare. We don't really know what happened to the Feruchemists, but most were members of the Keepers, and the Keepers were slaughtered by the Inquisitors after Ruin was released. I think the bloodlines are just too diluted, and Alloy of Law is roughly 300 years after Hero of Ages, so if the bloodlines are to be re-invigorated in a way that doesn't involve Harmony's intercession, it will be another 700 years until the Well is ready again. That is, unless Sazed becoming Harmony didn't completely change the nature of Preservation's Shardpool. Besides, the 'modern' trilogy has a Misting S.W.A.T. team against a Mistborn serial killer, so I think the power will be coming back.

 

In any case- we still need to figure out set, stable, standard ways to measure and compare each magic system. That don't involve asking Hoid or a Shard.

I agree here, but not for the reasons you're thinking. From a purely plot-based standpoint, I think the power will come back– several of the new feruchemical powers are pretty much meant to be used in conjunction with the rest of the feruchemical abilities, and I don't think the internal Enhancement metals will be consigned to uselessness forever. However, it is entirely possible for there to be Mistborn without the introduction of new power. Even prior to the introduction of Lerasium a thousand years before the Mistborn trilogy, Brandon has said there was a very, very low amount of Allomancy in the population. Even then, when the power was nearly nonexistent, he has said it is theoretically possible to be a Mistborn, just statistically very, very, very rare. Compared to then, it is much more likely now, if still very, very rare. And besides, there is the AoL plot to breed a Mistborn, so clearly it is possible. Plus, he could be Spiked for all we know.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I think it was in the annotations for one of the books, but I'd have to track down the exact quote. Spook was made a full Mistborn of the kind that Vin and Kelsier were, I think. Elend was the last Lerasium Mistborn- that is to say, the last Pure Allomancer. Presumably, some noble families survived too, but the chances of getting a Mistborn were already extremely rare. We don't really know what happened to the Feruchemists, but most were members of the Keepers, and the Keepers were slaughtered by the Inquisitors after Ruin was released. I think the bloodlines are just too diluted, and Alloy of Law is roughly 300 years after Hero of Ages, so if the bloodlines are to be re-invigorated in a way that doesn't involve Harmony's intercession, it will be another 700 years until the Well is ready again. That is, unless Sazed becoming Harmony didn't completely change the nature of Preservation's Shardpool. Besides, the 'modern' trilogy has a Misting S.W.A.T. team against a Mistborn serial killer, so I think the power will be coming back.

 

In any case- we still need to figure out set, stable, standard ways to measure and compare each magic system. That don't involve asking Hoid or a Shard.

 

Spook was made a reduced-strength mistborn comparable to the average mistborn in the final days of the Empire.  Kelsier and Vin were both significantly stronger than him, but not as strong as Elend.  Ferrings did come about as a result of the genes for feruchemy mixing with the genes for allomancy, so theoretically a person with pure Terris ancestry could be a full feruchemist.

[Shardmancer he/him]

I think there will be a calculation for a universal constant.. It's a great idea and im sure Brandon and Peter are already well on there way of divising a scale.. he already stated somehwat that there is a ratio for Breath-Stormlight.. As to how its used based on the person its invested in it can most likely be used more/less efficiently. But im sure by the latter end of his novels there will be a scale which suffiecently takes into account a unviersal constant. Khriss is probably already on it!