thejopen27 he/him Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) So my theory as to how the shattered plains shattered comes from reading Elantris and thinking about similarities between shardworlds and magic systems. We know that at least three shards have been splintered by Odium. Dominion and Devotion on Sel and Honor on Roshar. On both planets that Odium killed a Shardholder there was a devastating earthquake that broke the land. Sel presumably works like a regular planet and therefore has plate tectonics and fault lines so when one of the Shards was splintered it caused the land to break down a fault line leading to the rift in the middle of the southern continent. Roshar has land that is built up over time by crem deposits and worn down over time by the storms and therefore a massive energy burst might radiate out in a cymatic pattern like the shattered plains. It was not Ahairaitiem (I've no idea how to spell it with the Coppermind down) that shattered the land around Stormseat (btw if the storms come from Honor wouldn't Honor's home be at Stormseat) but the splintering of Honor. There were many desolations and there are no other places on Roshar with Cymatic lines nearly as obvious as the Shattered plains although many of the cities have cymatic patterns in their geography. On Sel the massive chasm that opened suddenly that shook an entire continent may have been caused by the splintering of Devotion or Dominion. It is a possible solution and I don't think we have enough information to know for sure but it is a possible explanation that elastically fits the evidence. As for why this didn't happen at the death of Ruin or preservation I have an idea. It's possible that it only happens when a shard is splintered and not when a shardholder dies, although the Scadrial was shaking badly already at the point of Vin's and Ruin's death and when Preservation died he was very weak and had given most of his power away. Edited March 30, 2014 by thejopen27 4
trendkill he/him Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 One problem: the Chasm on Sel only appeared 10 years before the events in Elantris. We know that Odium hasn't splintered a shard in several millennia at the time of Stormlight Archive. I'm just not sure that Elantris takes place several millennia before SA. 1
IronCaf he/him Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Another problem is that WoB confirms that there are no plate tectonics on Roshar: FireArcadiaDoes the world map in the Way of Kings show all of the landmasses of Roshar? Does that make the continent on Roshar a Pangaea-like supercontinent? And as I think about it, are there tectonic plates on Roshar? Brandon SandersonIt is a supercontinent. I won't say there is NOTHING out there, but (unlike Scadrial) there is not another full continent. Plate tectonics are not a factor on the supercontinent. It looks like TWoK takes place probably 300-500 years after Elantris (from cached the Coppermind continuity page and another topic on 17th Shard), so probably not close enough to support your theory. I do think you might be onto something talking about the Cymatic patterns that seem to abound on the planet. Is it possible that one occurred during/as a result of each desolation? There would be many of them in that case, but as you say we know that the whole continent is continually being eroded in the East and reformed in the West, so you would assume that such formations would become more difficult to see over time (like meteor impacts on Earth, but accelerated because we don't have High Storms). The Shattered Plains may be the most powerful instance, and also the most recent? It certainly merits consideration. 1
Moogle Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I don't think it was Honor's Splintering that did it. It's implied that the Parshendi did it by causing a sort of earthquake. Shallan explains her theory for it, which seems very reasonable. They blame our people For the loss of that land. The city that once covered it Did range the eastern strand. The power made known in the tomes of our clan Our gods were not who shattered these plains. —From the Listener Song of Wars, 55th stanza She shook her head. “What are the chances that a series of plateaus would take the exact same shape as those on another part of the Plains? Not just one, but an entire sequence . . .” “The Plains are symmetrical,” Kaladin said. She froze. “How do you know that?” “I . . . it was a dream. I saw the plateaus arrayed in a wide symmetrical formation.” She looked back at her map, then gasped. She began scribbling notes on the side. “Cymatics.” “What?” “I know where the Parshendi are.” Her eyes widened. “And the Oathgate. The center of the Shattered Plains. I can see it all— I can map almost the entire thing.” He shivered. “You . . . what?” She looked up sharply, meeting his eyes. “We have to get back.” “Yes, I know. The highstorm.” “More than that ,” she said, standing. “I know too much now to die out here. The Shattered Plains are a pattern. This isn’t a natural rock formation.” Her eyes widened further. “At the center of these Plains was a city. Something broke it apart. A weapon . . . Vibrations? Like sand on a plate ? An earthquake that could break rock . . . Stone became sand, and at the blowing of the highstorms, the cracks full of sand were hollowed out.” (Also, you're right, we do seem to disagree in most threads, jopen. ) 2
Seloun Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 I don't think it was Honor's Splintering that did it. It's implied that the Parshendi did it by causing a sort of earthquake. Shallan explains her theory for it, which seems very reasonable. They blame our people For the loss of that land. The city that once covered it Did range the eastern strand. The power made known in the tomes of our clan Our gods were not who shattered these plains. —From the Listener Song of Wars, 55th stanza I'm assuming you think the distinction here is between the Parshendi and the Parshendi gods. My reading is somewhat different - first, in the other stanzas, it seems to be implied that the Parshendi are effectively puppeted by the Unmade/Odium when in odiumforms; if the odiumforms were responsible for shattering the plains, I'd think they'd say their gods were in fact the ones that did it. Second, the first two lines are 'They blame our people / for the loss of that land'. I'm not sure why it would specifically call out that 'they blame our people' if the Parshendi were actually responsible. This seems to me implying that the truth is different from the perception (which is reinforced by the last line with the first point). What the stanza seems to be saying is that something other than the 'voidbringers' shattered the plains. The obvious implication then is that it was human surgebinders (maybe KR) that shattered the plains. 2
Bramble Thorn Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 What the stanza seems to be saying is that something other than the 'voidbringers' shattered the plains. The obvious implication then is that it was human surgebinders (maybe KR) that shattered the plains. Well, we have seen Kaladin stop a fall with Stormlight. Not heal the damage afterwards, but some type of stormlight cushion. Presumably that pressure surge can do more than stick things together. Kaladin needs to do that in the arena sand pit so we can see if it makes a cymatic pattern. Maybe he secretly has super goomba stomp powers!
thejopen27 he/him Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 I read that particular stanza as the Parshendi were saying that it wasn't them that caused the shattering and instead was either the humans or something else. I know there are no plate tectonics on Roshar that's why the shattering on Roshar would require a massive amount of energy to shake such a large area of solid flowing rock. On Sel the earth cracked along a massive line indicative of a fault line. There is no natural phenomena which would result in a sudden massive rift in the ground like the rift on Sel. As to the timeline of when Elantris takes place relative to the Stormlight Archive and we also don't know if Odium has been trapped since Ahairietiem or if Honor didn't trap him until later. Maybe Honor only died at the time of the Recreance (another event we don't know when it happened). Look I'm probably wrong but on both Sel and Roshar something out of the norm caused massive geological disasters and on both planets Odium splintered another Shard.
FlatLine Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 After the fight with Szeth, Kaladin states that the shattered plains have been shattered again. I'm not exactly sure what he means about this though, because nothing else is talked about.
Windrunner he/him Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 They were rebroken where the storms met. At least one plateau was ripped free and thrown hundreds of feet into the air. 3
Satsuoni he/him Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 My best guess would be some thing along these lines: A human city (Stromseat?) was besieged by Voidbringers. The KR in the city made an Illumination/vibration fabrial weapon, but miscalculated the resonance / shot it prematurely, and the plains cracked along the resonance nodes, taking the city with them.
Bramble Thorn Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 My best guess would be some thing along these lines: A human city (Stromseat?) was besieged by Voidbringers. The KR in the city made an Illumination/vibration fabrial weapon, but miscalculated the resonance / shot it prematurely, and the plains cracked along the resonance nodes, taking the city with them. Rookie mistake. If you are going to weaponize the Lightweaving surge, you should be making giant freaking lazers. 1
Satsuoni he/him Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Rookie mistake. If you are going to weaponize the Lightweaving surge, you should be making giant freaking lazers. I know, right? Lasers are cooler *and* easier to aim. I would still like to see a giant death-spren based Peace Ray fabrial, though.
Tamzin Ashevai she/her Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I'm not much of a theorist, but I do believe the Shattered Plains have been re-shattered by both the Everstorm and the unpredicted Highstorm (which I suspect Honor's remnant caused in retaliation). As to what shattered them in the first place ... this Stormform of the Listeners is dangerous. Were they responsible, initially?
Secret Ardent Man Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 I thought recently that perhaps the Dustbringers, since I equate dust with sand, could have done this to the Shattered Plains. Way before the Recreance, probably, but maybe not.
dvoraen Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 I always got the impression that the Releasers/Dustbringers were responsible for the Shattered Plains, myself. Plus, Kalak explicitly thinks that "the Dustbringers had done their work well" in the Prelude, though that could just have been an observation on the ruined area. We don't know where the Heralds placed their Honorblades, after all, only that the Shin secured them.
Twenty@20 he/him Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) Do we know if the Shattered plains were truely shattered at some point in the past or they only appear shattered. It could be that Stormseat and its surrounding area was already symmetrical like Kholinar. After Stormseat was abandoned or its inhabitants got massacred somehow, crem started to deposit over the symmetrical rock formations resulting in formations of plateaus. As the plateaus grew bigger, the gap between them became deeper and became chasms. My theory is based on the discovery of intact buildings on the plateaus. If the plains were shattered by some massive force we would not expect to find any standing buildings there. However if the shattering part is true, then it is probable that symmetrical cities like Kholinar were also created by some shattering force in the distant past. Edited December 7, 2014 by Twenty@20
Mckeedee123 he/him Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Do we know if the Shattered plains were truely shattered at some point in the past or they only appear shattered. It could be that Stormseat and its surrounding area was already symmetrical like Kholinar. After Stormseat was abandoned or its inhabitants got massacred somehow, crem started to deposit over the symmetrical rock formations resulting in formations of plateaus. As the plateaus grew bigger, the gap between them became deeper and became chasms. My theory is based on the discovery of intact buildings on the plateaus. If the plains were shattered by some massive force we would not expect to find any standing buildings there. However if the shattering part is true, then it is probable that symmetrical cities like Kholinar were also created by some shattering force in the distant past. In Words of Radiance, Adolin contests a gemheart with Jakamav, and they fight the Parshendi on a pyramid-like formation which is presumably a building that was split in half when the plains were shattered
dvoraen Posted December 8, 2014 Posted December 8, 2014 One thing that I've been wondering about, though, is whether the fabrial equivalent of a Wheel of Time (sa')angreal exists. In other words, a device that enhances how powerful one's Surgebinding is, such that it could lay waste to a large scale area. I would imagine that at the minimum, a highstorm over the Plains was required in order to cause the effect (in other words, they consumed the storm's Investiture "charge" completely, rather than it dispersing over the continent to spheres as usual).
Twenty@20 he/him Posted December 9, 2014 Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Reading this thread, I get the feeling that this particular line "Our gods were not who shattered these plains." from the Listener Song of Wars, 55th stanza, is what rules out the Listeners or one of their Voidbringer forms as the cause of destruction of Stormseat/ shattering of the plains. I have an alternative theory about this based on the folklore of the two Purelaker God's- Nu Ralik and Vun Makak. As we know the Purelakers actually worship Nu Ralik while outwardly pretending to revere Vun Makak who they actually don't like. I guess the relation of the Listeners with their Gods is somewhat similar. While they actually don't love their Gods (they actively want to avoid their God's attention, a point which Gavilar ignored) nevertheless they still call them Gods. The wording of the song may reflect this dichotomy in their beliefs. So while they don't have any devotion towards their Gods they don't dare to openly blame them for the destruction they cause. Perhaps I am over analysing this but I find it best to let my theories out rather than have them ruminating in my mind. Edited December 9, 2014 by Twenty@20
Shaggai Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 I suspect it was the Stormfather (perhaps the Splintering, but that seems unlikely). The wording of the Song is odd, if you assume it wasn't a god of some sort. They blame our people For the loss of that land. The city that once covered it Did range the eastern strand. The power made known in the tomes of our clan Our gods were not who shattered these plains. Why would it specifically mention their gods? The previous lines don't seem to imply anything about gods. However, if you assume it was someone else's god(s), that would make significantly more sense. It was not our gods who shattered these plains, it was someone else. The main other god is the Stormfather, especially as Cultivation would be unlikely to shatter the plains.
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