mons456 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) So as my first post I want to discuss the possibility that the still living Davars have a claim on Jah Keved from their mothers family side. Evidences are: - Valam was the highprince of house Davar ( "Valam. He still lives?" Her own highprince.; Shallan p. 367) Valam ended up has King of Jah Keved before dying and giving the kingdom to Taravangian (p. 915) - Valam's bastard is likelly the "bastard" that visits the Davars to recruit a lighteyes from this family to start a inquiry against Shallan's father about her mother's death.( I would like an e-reader to prove this point pls, didn't find the scene again) The question is: Why bother with her death if she wouldn't be family? One might argue, if the claim is strong enough to actually make use of it, but as Taravangian's claim comes from a femal three generations ago House Davar's claim is even stronger than Taravangian's one. If this theory proves true, it opens a lot of future politic shemes. Edit: On second thought, if Taravangian dies, who elso would have a claim on Jah Keved and the power/allies to push it? I dont think that Taravangians heirs will play a significant role in this matter Discuss... Edited March 20, 2014 by mons456 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor he/him Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 NOW THAT WOULD BE COOL. Shallan will be queen of both Jah Keved and Alethkar once Adolin inevitably inherits the throne in a few books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elena she/her Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) No please no. One of the thing I disliked the most in WoT was how everyone ends up with a kingdom in the end, for no real plot-driven reason whatsoever except that it sounded cool. It's terribly unrealistic and I dont see the need for it. Edited. Edited March 21, 2014 by _Elena 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mons456 Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) who is everyone? Shallan herself probably wont inherit a thing, as it does seem like in the veden states there only exists agnatic (male) inheritance, as Jasnah herself is not listet as a successor to the Alethi throne, Elhokar ->his infant son -> Dalinar -> Adolin; I dont thin it will be any different in Jah Keved, as the gouvernment form is very similar to Alethkar: You have highprinces, a king, vassals, ardents and the like. As for the Plot Dalinar wants to reunite the Silver Kingdoms; for that the acquisition of Jah Keved is of utmost importance because they hold as many shards as Alethkar and about 1/3 of all known shards in Roshar. Dalinar will probably (have to?) use the same method as Nohadon, and that is war. This war will need a pretext, where the claim comes in handy. I see a clash between Taravangian and Dalinar as inevitable unless one of them dies. Both see themselves as pretty much the only ones capable of saving mankind on Roshar. And dont forget that our beloved Dalinar, as a Tyrant, will crasp after every bit of power he can get his hands on. Edited March 21, 2014 by mons456 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster he/him Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm pretty ambivalent to Shallan becoming Queen of Jah Kaved. It might have larger KR significance I guess. On the other hand I'm deeply invested in Lopen becoming King of all Herdaaz. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colby Jack he/him Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 who is everyone? Shallan herself probably wont inherit a thing, as it does seem like in the veden states there only exists agnatic (male) inheritance, as Jasnah herself is not listet as a successor to the Alethi throne, Elhokar ->his infant son -> Dalinar -> Adolin; I dont thin it will be any different in Jah Keved, as the gouvernment form is very similar to Alethkar: You have highprinces, a king, vassals, ardents and the like. As for the Plot Dalinar wants to reunite the Silver Kingdoms; for that the acquisition of Jah Keved is of utmost importance because they hold as many shards as Alethkar and about 1/3 of all known shards in Roshar. Dalinar will probably (have to?) use the same method as Nohadon, and that is war. This war will need a pretext, where the claim comes in handy. I see a clash between Taravangian and Dalinar as inevitable unless one of them dies. Both see themselves as pretty much the only ones capable of saving mankind on Roshar. And dont forget that our beloved Dalinar, as a Tyrant, will crasp after every bit of power he can get his hands on. A war of conquest in the middle of an apocalypse is a terrible idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macen he/him Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 A war of conquest in the middle of an apocalypse is a terrible idea. Colby, only if you think in logical, and not devious ways. I think it's a great idea - I want to read all about the carnage that ensues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colby Jack he/him Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Colby, only if you think in logical, and not devious ways. I think it's a great idea - I want to read all about the carnage that ensues. It's also a bad idea because Taravangian is the only one who will listen to Dalinar and can be considered his only supporter among the foreign monarch. Also, I don't think Dalinar is nearly as bloodthirsty as you two think he is. If you're in the mood for carnage, I recommend Warhammer 40k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macen he/him Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Haha true. I don't think he is bloodthirsty at all, I think he has just accepted his role of Tyrant. This may change with him becoming a Bondsmith (lets be honest, most nations are probably going to work with the KR once they get all of the oathgates working). And I have read nearly all of the 40k books. Gaunts Ghosts are by far my favorite. Although the Eisenhorn and Horus Heresy were really good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke.spence Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm pretty ambivalent to Shallan becoming Queen of Jah Kaved. It might have larger KR significance I guess. On the other hand I'm deeply invested in Lopen becoming King of all Herdaaz. Lopen for president 2016! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colby Jack he/him Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Not exactly the right forum to talk about this but... Gaunts Ghosts! Stories focused around the Imperial Guards are the best. I also like Ciaphas Cain. I wet myself every time a new book gets announced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elena she/her Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 who is everyone?Sorry, I just realized I mistyped and the post doesnt make sense. Hopefully it does now; I went back and edited.I was referring to WoT and to how everyone of the main characters somehow ends up as a ruler of some sort even though it was a bit of a overkill; chied example being Perrin - I'm still not over how two very interesting characters were killed off so that his wife could become queen. UGH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 No please no. One of the thing I disliked the most in WoT was how everyone ends up with a kingdom in the end, for no real plot-driven reason whatsoever except that it sounded cool. It's terribly unrealistic and I dont see the need for it. Edited. who is everyone? Shallan herself probably wont inherit a thing, as it does seem like in the veden states there only exists agnatic (male) inheritance, as Jasnah herself is not listet as a successor to the Alethi throne, Elhokar ->his infant son -> Dalinar -> Adolin; I dont thin it will be any different in Jah Keved, as the gouvernment form is very similar to Alethkar: You have highprinces, a king, vassals, ardents and the like. As for the Plot Dalinar wants to reunite the Silver Kingdoms; for that the acquisition of Jah Keved is of utmost importance because they hold as many shards as Alethkar and about 1/3 of all known shards in Roshar. Dalinar will probably (have to?) use the same method as Nohadon, and that is war. This war will need a pretext, where the claim comes in handy. I see a clash between Taravangian and Dalinar as inevitable unless one of them dies. Both see themselves as pretty much the only ones capable of saving mankind on Roshar. And dont forget that our beloved Dalinar, as a Tyrant, will crasp after every bit of power he can get his hands on. It would be plot relevant though to my thinking. "Unite them..." may infact refer to all humans like T thinks and is trying to do. By marrying Adolin, who could be in line for the throne (especially if Ehlokar realizes that he should step down and give the throne to his Uncle who may then die before his viewpoint book)... King Adolin and Queen Shallan would have a claim on the throne of Jah Keved, which would help them unite the human kingdoms. A war of conquest in the middle of an apocalypse is a terrible idea. Shades of Hero of Ages... no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 How does Valam being the highprince of house Davar house give Shallan's family any claim to the throne? Shallan is not blood related to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terra of Roshar she/her Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 How does Valam being the highprince of house Davar house give Shallan's family any claim to the throne? Shallan is not blood related to him. I'm not sure what the justification for it was, but she and her brothers did think in WOK that the Ghostbloods were backing their father for highprince. I doubt they would have done that if there was little to no chance of it working. Of course, they still might not have had a blood claim, just enough soldiers/money/allies to win a succession war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seloun Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 The main problem I have with this theory is that I'm not sure why it matters. When nightmarish monsters are knocking down your door, are you going to spend a lot of time worrying about who has a better claim through lineage? Or are you going to back the guy that can fly with an army of glowing defenders? Ultimately the thing that won Taravangian the throne is less his lineage and more his actions during the civil war; I just don't think it really matters whether or not Shallan has a specific blood claim. Especially given that 'might makes right' has practically been the religion in the area for the last however many centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'm not sure what the justification for it was, but she and her brothers did think in WOK that the Ghostbloods were backing their father for highprince. I doubt they would have done that if there was little to no chance of it working. Of course, they still might not have had a blood claim, just enough soldiers/money/allies to win a succession war. You are right and I remember this, but one gets chosen to be highprince (unless there is an heir, but Davar's highprince had only a bastard son who can't really inherit anything), whereas the title of the king is passed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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