5ith Ideal he/him Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Any theories on the best (and fastest) way to kill Odium? Personally, I think Harmony should stab him with Nightblood. Think about it.
goody153 Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 I don't think Harmony would need Nightblood's help. He is quite possibly the most capable of splintering anybody considering how much raw power he has assuming of course he knew how to do it and his intent doesn't block his way
Leyrann Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Kill Rayse then pick up the shard while having enough other shards to balance it's Intent.
Journey Before Pancakes Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 I do think Harmony could end up defeating Odium; though Nightblood probably isn't needed. Of all the shards that could fight Odium, I think Harmony has a really solid chance. He could balance his intents by Preserving other shards and Ruining Odium.
Exial Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 If Odium is considered unbalanced then it might be something that harmony could "balance" but im not sure how easy it is for shards that have settled on a planet to travel, I know it was very difficult for ruin or preservation to keep track of someone who was leaving scadrial, and I wonder if there would be effects on the people if he left for a bit.
teknopathetic he/him Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 6 hours ago, goody153 said: I don't think Harmony would need Nightblood's help. He is quite possibly the most capable of splintering anybody considering how much raw power he has assuming of course he knew how to do it and his intent doesn't block his way If only he could Ruin to Preserve
Calderis he/him Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Harmony is, relatively, inexperienced with his powers. His opposed intents also make it very difficult to act. Quote Questioner Does Odium actually present a real threat to Harmony, because he-- *interrupted* Brandon Sanderson So Harmony is vastly more powerful than Odium. Questioner Yeah. Brandon Sanderson Elend was vastly more powerful than Vin. Who would win in a fight? Questioner Vin. Brandon Sanderson Okay, there's your answer. source Assuming Harmony is best equipped to deal with Rayse... Is an error.
5ith Ideal he/him Posted June 14, 2018 Author Posted June 14, 2018 7 hours ago, goody153 said: I don't think Harmony would need Nightblood's help. He is quite possibly the most capable of splintering anybody considering how much raw power he has assuming of course he knew how to do it and his intent doesn't block his way He probably could; but Rayse (and Odium itself) is devious. You never know what could happen in a fight between the two (technically three) Shards. Plus, Nightblood would love it.
Yvainnie she/her Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Question is if this is solution to anything? Would it not be a better to get him together with another or all Shards like with Ruin efectively making him useless thanks to Preservation. As long as Shards act alone they do too much damage.
Weltall Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, 5ith Ideal said: Personally, I think Harmony should stab him with Nightblood. Think about it. Nightblood may be one of the most heavily Invested non-Shardic entities but killing a Shard is way beyond him. Quote Questioner Hypothetically could Nightblood Splinter a Shard? Brandon Sanderson Uh, Splintering a Shard takes more power than Nightblood has. source He could hurt a Shard but he's not going to be killing any of them. I think that others have the best long-term solution to dealing with the threat that Odium presents and it resonates with what Frost says in his letter. Odium is God's hatred without any virtues to give that hatred context and direction. Just killing Rayse won't solve the problem, it will just push it off onto the next Vessel who may be a better person than him but would still have that Intent to deal with. So, merge Odium with a second Shard whose intent will provide a context for that hate, rather than making things worse. Ie, Odium plus Ruin would probably be a Very Bad Idea but Odium plus Honor could potentially be a very good combination. Which just leaves the minor problem of how to land a killing blow on the Shard that's already killed four others and is paranoid about not making himself any more vulnerable than he needs to be. 3 hours ago, Exial said: If Odium is considered unbalanced then it might be something that harmony could "balance" but im not sure how easy it is for shards that have settled on a planet to travel, I know it was very difficult for ruin or preservation to keep track of someone who was leaving scadrial, and I wonder if there would be effects on the people if he left for a bit. Welcome to the Shard! The way that Shards 'inhabit' a location is sort of an imprecise thing given that the bulk of their power is in the Spiritual Realm where 'space' is meaningless, but Brandon's said that it's the best we can do. A Shard that's Invested in a world can still 'travel'. Autonomy for example is Invested in the Taldain System but is able to influence other worlds through the Spiritual Realm and creating Splinters on other planets. There's a long WoB here that talks about this sort of thing you might find interesting if you haven't seen it yet. The above aside, a Shard can leave a world that it's Invested in but they would have to either spend time withdrawing their Investiture (which would affect the world in potentially cataclysmic ways) or leave that Investiture behind, a process that would leave the Shard weaker. Edited June 14, 2018 by Weltall 2
Mah'alleinir he/him Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Hey, this might be a little offtopic but the thread got me thinking... If the bulk of a Shard's power is in the Spirtual Realm and such place doesn't really account for "space". How come a Shard can hide from another? Does a Shard need to find another in the PR to kill it? Haven't seen this talked here but I really haven't searched for it. Just questions going trough my mind that might be worth sharing. Most of the Shard interactions with the PR are kindda covered in mist (no pun intended) to my eyes. For example, to what extend does Odium know what's going on on Roshar? Might not be a fair case though as he is kinda locked on Braize (all of this is really blurry to me) He doesn't seem to know it all as he asks King T to get him what the Coalition knows on something (don't recall exactly what know) but that might just be a test
Journey Before Pancakes Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Calderis said: Harmony is, relatively, inexperienced with his powers. His opposed intents also make it very difficult to act. Assuming Harmony is best equipped to deal with Rayse... Is an error. I think there’s good reason that Odium fears Harmony though. As a vessel, he isn’t ready to do anything like that. I don’t think anyone would want to argue that point; dual-shard or not he’s basically a baby in the Cosmere scale of things. In terms of the powers he holds and how they could manifest though, I think he’s in a really good position and that’s why Odium is afraid of him. If Odium were a threat to Harmony, the combined Intents of Preservation and Ruin could easily work together to destroy Odium as a means of preservation.
Odin1981 Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 I could see somehow in the far future Cultivation + Harmony doing something significant to help beat Odium. Mainly because they both are fairly similar in intent to a degree but Cultivation has the experience too teach Harmony about stuff. However ultimately I would not be surprised if Honor gets reformed and deliver's the coupe de gras.
Guest Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Weltall said: Nightblood may be one of the most heavily Invested non-Shardic entities but killing a Shard is way beyond him. He could hurt a Shard but he's not going to be killing any of them. I think that others have the best long-term solution to dealing with the threat that Odium presents and it resonates with what Frost says in his letter. Odium is God's hatred without any virtues to give that hatred context and direction. Just killing Rayse won't solve the problem, it will just push it off onto the next Vessel who may be a better person than him but would still have that Intent to deal with. So, merge Odium with a second Shard whose intent will provide a context for that hate, rather than making things worse. Ie, Odium plus Ruin would probably be a Very Bad Idea but Odium plus Honor could potentially be a very good combination. Which just leaves the minor problem of how to land a killing blow on the Shard that's already killed four others and is paranoid about not making himself any more vulnerable than he needs to be. Now I was just thinking, but recall how Vasher defeated Arsteel and Denth by giving them breath and then killing them? What you said about Odium seems like it could (probably won't, I know, but I'm just wondering if it could) lead to a similar ending. Someone could "give" another Shard to Rayse somehow which balances out his destructive intent and perhaps effectively neutralizes/incapacitates him. Perhaps he doesn't need to be killed before the Shard of Odium is combined with another Shard. Perhaps one could be combined with him while he was still alive, thus negating the "minor problem of how to land a killing blow on the Shard that's already killed four others and is paranoid about not making himself any more vulnerable than he needs to be." Just... wondering if this is plausible in any way, shape, or form. My ideas tend not to be.
Calderis he/him Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 @theRoyalDingus that idea would have merit if there were a way to force Rayse to hold a Shard given to him. Unfortunately, as we've had it confirmed that a Vessel can willingly give up a Shard, I don't think we could force Odium to be merged with another shard if the Vessel doesn't want it. 1
Weltall Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 To add to what @Calderis said, we know for a certainty that Rayse doesn't want to take up any other Shards for exactly the reason that it would change him. Breath has an inherent mechanism for transfering it to other parties and while the giver must be willing, the recipient doesn't necessarily have to be. However, we don't know that such a thing is possible for a Shard and it's not a good idea to generalize from one specific magic system to a Cosmere-wide application. So, if it were possible it would be a good idea (provided you could find the right other Shard to force upon him of course) but we don't know it's actually possible.
Naurock Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 4 hours ago, theRoyalDingus said: Now I was just thinking, but recall how Vasher defeated Arsteel and Denth by giving them breath and then killing them? What you said about Odium seems like it could (probably won't, I know, but I'm just wondering if it could) lead to a similar ending. Someone could "give" another Shard to Rayse somehow which balances out his destructive intent and perhaps effectively neutralizes/incapacitates him. Perhaps he doesn't need to be killed before the Shard of Odium is combined with another Shard. Perhaps one could be combined with him while he was still alive, thus negating the "minor problem of how to land a killing blow on the Shard that's already killed four others and is paranoid about not making himself any more vulnerable than he needs to be." Just... wondering if this is plausible in any way, shape, or form. My ideas tend not to be. While I like the idea, it would be a MASSIVE amount of Investiture being forced into him. Quote Vasher knelt, arm twitching. The black veins on his skin slowly evapo- rated. He was left with just barely enough Breath to reach the First Height- ening. Another few seconds, and Nightblood would have sucked the rest away. So to a Shard holding an "infinite" amount of Investiture, we need to find a way to force the equivalent of approx 50 breaths which is still an insane amount of Investiture into Odium. A Highstorm? Several Highstorms?
Exial Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 Im really curious as to how Odium has managed to splinter other shards without damaging himself and/or merging with those shards. The only destruction of shards I believe we've seen on screen so far is ruin/preservation. I think until we know how it was done we won't have a definative idea of how to defeat Odium for good.
Calderis he/him Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Exial said: Im really curious as to how Odium has managed to splinter other shards without damaging himself and/or merging with those shards. The only destruction of shards I believe we've seen on screen so far is ruin/preservation. I think until we know how it was done we won't have a definative idea of how to defeat Odium for good. Who says he's undamaged? He is called "The Broken One." And the Ruin and Preservation killed each other. The joining was a product of them being picked up by the same person. That didn't have to happen. We absolutely do not know how splintering occurs, but I don't think the Shard needs to be destroyed to deal with Odium.
goody153 Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 As hard as Harmony would make actions i highly doubt he can't defend himself or make an action to kill somebody. Cause he also has plenty of times
Weltall Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 I don't think that anyone is suggesting that it's impossible for Harmony to fight Odium if he had to (he's clearly working against whatever 'Trell' is doing in BoM) but that the outcome of the fight would not be nearly as certain as the raw power of the parties might suggest, per the WoB above. Also worth remembering in general is that the Intents are not self-directed, so 'Harmony acting to Preserve himself' is not really an argument. Harmony acting to preserve Scadrial if it were attacked would be a different matter. Quote Chaos It's a little odd that Preservation would inherently give up its power to fuel Allomancy, because you'd think he would preserve himself, you know? Does that make sense? Brandon Sanderson Preservation, as a Shard, is about preserving life, people, and the like. Not about self. No more than Ruin is about destroying self, or Cultivation is about growing herself. source
Recommended Posts