[OB] Dalinar-Bondsmith-Potential

[KalaDANG]

So, there's a super long list of things I want to discuss, but first, If Dalinar is now bonded to Stormfather, and the remnants of Honor's splintered power allows them to do things that would not have been able to do previously as a bonded bondsmith like opening Honor's Perpendicularity, do you think Dalinar will be able to unlock the dormant potential of the Oathgates to travel to and from the cognitive realm? Because the gigantic spren of the Oathgate told Shallan that Honor locked the trans-realm capabilities of the gates, and since he was gone, there wouldn't be a way to unlock it. But now that Dalinar has according to Odium, "Ascended", he essentially IS Honor. Now obviously Dalinar hasn't been able to Ascend fully because, duh, he ain't a god. But I guess that it could be that because he was so connected to Honor because of who he is, and through his bond with the Stormfather, it allowed him to partially take up some of the splintered power of Honor, kind of like how if one was to consume Lerasium or Atium on Scadrial, they would be consuming the essence of a either Preservation or Ruin, but wouldn't ascend. If one was to consume ENOUGH of the essence though, bing bang boom you got a god. So obviously, Dalinar wasn't able to draw upon enough of Honor's power to ascend, but it's really interesting to see where that goes. It's kind of confusing though, because supposedly, Odium had found a way to splinter the power of the gods in such a way that their power couldn't be taken up again, resulting in the Dor on Sel, which is just the remnants of the splintered power of Devotion and Dominion pushing their way through the Aons, and I think this is also where stormlight comes from, Honor's splintered power shining through the realms during Highstorms. Considering this, It makes a lot of sense that Odium would get really scared and worried, and then retreat from the battle of Thaylen City when Dalinar started drawing upon the powers of the dead god, because he thought that by splintering it, he wouldn't ever have to worry about it being taken up. I'd be a wee bit angry. There's a lot of speculation on here, but this is just some of the thoughts I've been having, so let me know what you think.

[Nathrangking]

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Pre-Shattering magic in books?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Let's see. I would count the highstorms as that. Highstorm predates the Shattering. Now, the highstorm has been changed dramatically by certain events, but the highstorm does predate the Shattering.

source

 

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There was a point when the Heralds didn't need to draw Stormlight from gems, although the Stormlight-in-gems predates Honor's arrival.

There was a following conversation about this topic, about how a lot of the elements were there before Honor arrived, but he co-opted them. So, Stormlight were there, but there are big differences now.

Footnote: Unspecified question by Pagerunner.
source

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Nathrangking

[KalaDANG]

So, yeah Brandon has said that highstorms were there before Honor and Cultivation arrived, but because of certain events like Honor's splintering they were changed. All of Dalinar's pre-recreance visions and pre-death of the almighty visions have people using torches to see and such, is that because people hadn't discovered that gemstones captured stormlight? Or had highstorms not been changed to the point where stormlight shone through? And if they didn't need investiture from gems, does that mean that Honor powered them directly? That's really interesting.

[Calderis]

Yes, the Heralds were directly fueled by Honor. 

Quote

Steeldancer

The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence.

Steeldancer

Like Vin and Elend?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do.

Steeldancer

The second part of the question is, what would happen if they were directly powered by Honor and they were holding Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO

source

And one of the WoBs that Nathrangking shared says outright that Stormlight in gems predates Honor's arrival, not its splintering.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Calderis

[Wandering Investor]

It would depend on whether the oathgate spren consider Tanavast the Father or the Shard Honor as their Father. 

The details on how shattering works is unknown, but may result in chunks of powers, so Dalinar could have ascended to parts of Honor in the very least. Also, Odium stuffed Devotion and Dominion into the cognitive realm in order to prevent them from gaining sentience or some ascending to them. With Cultivation still around, Odium may not have been able to do that with Honor, and since the Cognitive realm doesn't seem to be stuffed full of shard corpse, Honor's power may still be in a position where people can ascend to it.

[stonedshaman]

Also I would have today that your mistborn comparison is flawed as

[spoilers] at the end of HoA Elend and all the atium mistings burn through the entirety of the kandra's Atium collection and none of them ascended to becoming a god

[MountainKing]

2 hours ago, stonedshaman said:

Also I would have today that your mistborn comparison is flawed as

[spoilers] at the end of HoA Elend and all the atium mistings burn through the entirety of the kandra's Atium collection and none of them ascended to becoming a god

That's because allomancy is used up in an instant, and then works it's  way back to it's respective shard(we do know that a very small portion of the investiture sticks to your spiritweb and maybe your over aspects)and the piece of Ruin used to create atium was only a small piece.

Dalinar tapped into Honor's investiture in the spiritual realm.

[KalaDANG]

I found the WoB that I originally got the info from. The URL is https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=977

DOUGLAS

What about a Lerasium savant? Or would that require so much Lerasium that the person attempting it would ascend to become a new Shardholder?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Basically, this is what ascension is.

 

So yeah it's a thing. Basically what he's saying is that the amount of Lerasium or Atium that would have to be consumed in order to become a savant in either of those allomancy disciplines would force you to consume enough of the god's essence to ascend.

Spoiler

Just like how Preservation's essence in liquid form at the Well of Ascension allowed the Lord Ruler to Ascend, and how Preservation's essence in gaseous form allowed Vin to Ascend fully, and even Kelsier was able to ascend in secret history by taking up Preservation's essence with the help of the Orb he stole from the Ire. This is how every single ascension takes place in the cosmere, by someone coming into contact with, and consuming or absorbing the essence of a shard.

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by KalaDANG
Added spoiler tag

[+Trellium]

The Atium the Kandra kept in the trustwarren represented the bulk of what the pits produced over Rashek's reign. However, this itself only represented the small portion of Ruin's power that left him relatively balanced with Preservation, who had given an extra bit of himself to the Scadrian people at their creation. Also, Demoux's entire crew of mistfallen consumed as much as they could, and Elend took the biggest chunk. Also, KanPar, and then Marsh, stole a large enough quantity of the atium to allow Marsh to utilize Rashek's immortality trick and survive through the centuries.

There wasn't enough Atium to allow someone to ascend while Ati still held the bulk of his power, trapped at the Well of Ascension. And even if it had been enough, some was stolen, and the rest was split many ways.