MountainKing Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Was Syl starting to bond with Tien before he died? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No, good question. But Tien was starting to bond a different spren. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] I was suspecting that he was bonding a spren, but then Syl says, at one point, just as she was coming over *inaudible* so I was like, maybe! Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Good question, but no, he was going in a different direction. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Can you tell me...? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Lightweaver. source So we know that lightweavers need to say truths so further in their order, so what would of been Tien's secrets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 Not secrets. Truths. Meaningful truths about themselves. That doesn't require secrets at all, just a willingness to look at yourself honestly and accept what is. Which is something that people are remarkably bad at. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntentAwesome Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 What! I didn't realize we had confirmation that Tien was a proto-Lightweaver. I've suspected it for a long time, but nice to have confirmation. I agree with Calderis about the truths, more than the secrets. Tien may simply have accepted that he would never be a surgeon or that he would never be as favored as Kaladin. After all, Lirin and Hesina took some pretty big risks to give Kaladin a future outside of Hearthstone, but they didn't for Tien. He may just have accepted that nobody else would appreciate beauty the way he did. I'm thinking of the conversation between Kaladin and Tien, where Tien said it wasn't a big deal that nobody recognized his talent, he'd just make a "practical chair" tomorrow. Quote "Oh, I don't know about that Tien said, still smiling, "It's just a horse. Master Ral likes things you can use. Things to sit on, things to put clothes in. But I think I can make a good chair tomorrow." Those all sound depressing. On the other hand, he may have recognized that he had a talent for creating art and beauty, which no one else did. And still probably wouldn't appreciate. But, to go along with MountainKing, we do know that Cryptics are attracted to lies. Elhokar is a fascinating lie: a man trying to portray himself as (and trying to be) a great king, when really he isn't. It's easy to see why a Cryptic would be drawn to that. Art itself is a form of a lie, a wooden carving of a horse is really a bit of wood pretending to look like a horse. So it could just be that. Or perhaps, like Shallan, Tien's ability to see beauty was more of a forced way to be positive and optimistic in the face of unhappiness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljósmóður she/her Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 We only see Tien filtered through Kaladin's perceptions of him, in Kaladin's flashbacks. He isn't fully realised as a character independent of Kaladin's filter and we don't have much backstory to go off, so working out his truths is likely to be speculation. However, one thing that strikes me is that Kaladin appears to assume that Tien's efforts to cheer him up are wholly unconscious - that Tien just makes Kaladin brighter because that's Tien's personality. My recollection from reading WoK is an unspoken assumption that Tien doesn't know about Kaladin's depression because it rarely manifests fully around him. Perhaps, Tien's truth might be that he is entirely aware of his big brother's struggles and his efforts to cheer Kaladin up are deliberate acts on his part. Perhaps, he's not as light-hearted and sunny as Kaladin perceives him to be and it's a mask for the benefit of Kaladin. I don't know if that makes him too similar to Shallan and the way she reveals that her bright, lightness is all a front when she and Kaladin are in the chasms or whether it's plausible mirroring of the two lightweavers, since Kaladin is pretty explicit that Shallan reminds him of Tien. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 4 hours ago, IntentAwesome said: What! I didn't realize we had confirmation that Tien was a proto-Lightweaver. I've suspected it for a long time, but nice to have confirmation. I agree with Calderis about the truths, more than the secrets. Tien may simply have accepted that he would never be a surgeon or that he would never be as favored as Kaladin. After all, Lirin and Hesina took some pretty big risks to give Kaladin a future outside of Hearthstone, but they didn't for Tien. He may just have accepted that nobody else would appreciate beauty the way he did. I'm thinking of the conversation between Kaladin and Tien, where Tien said it wasn't a big deal that nobody recognized his talent, he'd just make a "practical chair" tomorrow. Those all sound depressing. On the other hand, he may have recognized that he had a talent for creating art and beauty, which no one else did. And still probably wouldn't appreciate. But, to go along with MountainKing, we do know that Cryptics are attracted to lies. Elhokar is a fascinating lie: a man trying to portray himself as (and trying to be) a great king, when really he isn't. It's easy to see why a Cryptic would be drawn to that. Art itself is a form of a lie, a wooden carving of a horse is really a bit of wood pretending to look like a horse. So it could just be that. Or perhaps, like Shallan, Tien's ability to see beauty was more of a forced way to be positive and optimistic in the face of unhappiness. Just got it today, from MisoulaCon over the weekend. I soundly admit I was wrong to doubt Tien's protoness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelly Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 I wonder if there's a family connection... Like how the Kholin family seems to have an unusually large number of Radiants. (Has Brandon commented on that yet?) I could see Hesnia as an Edgedancer, personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, Zellyia said: I wonder if there's a family connection... Like how the Kholin family seems to have an unusually large number of Radiants. (Has Brandon commented on that yet?) I could see Hesnia as an Edgedancer, personally. Don't know if it will continue, because Kaladin hasn't actually been around them the majority of time he's been a Radiant, but yeah. Quote Questioner Is being a Knight Radiant at all genetic? Because you have Jasnah, Dalinar, and Renarin in the same family. Brandon Sanderson It is not genetic, however… Um… Families or people close to one another are more likely. It’s not genetic. So for instance, if everyone were adopted it would still have the same prevalence. Questioner Okay, fascinating! Questioner [interruption hard to hear] Brandon Sanderson Well, there are a couple of reasons for that. One is which, attracting the attention of a spren can mean that other spren are paying attention to that area. There are also things in the Cosmere (the shared universe of them) where people are connected spiritually. Um… and that’s part of the magic as well. So… You are more likely to become a Radiant if you know a Radiant. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 My thought is that it is the order of lightweavers as a whole that helps perk people up. Specifically, in WoR, there's an epigraph referring to how when the radiants were down after a defeat, the lightweavers helped inspire them to be perky again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 Tien was specifically killed right? in that case, do we know why Kaladin wasn't killed then or after bridgeruns because Nale seems very well informed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted May 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 Tien is a lightweaver, lightweavers can make illusions, Jasnah believes that illusions can help with soulcasting, Tien in his time in the army spent a lot of time alone, I don't think we have a confirmation that Tien is truly dead. Tien used the surges to create a duplicate body and then ran away from the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, MountainKing said: Tien is a lightweaver, lightweavers can make illusions, Jasnah believes that illusions can help with soulcasting, Tien in his time in the army spent a lot of time alone, I don't think we have a confirmation that Tien is truly dead. Tien used the surges to create a duplicate body and then ran away from the army. Kaladin held Tien's body until it was cold... That's a pretty convincing illusion if true. Edited May 30, 2018 by Calderis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent34 Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Steeldancer said: My thought is that it is the order of lightweavers as a whole that helps perk people up. Specifically, in WoR, there's an epigraph referring to how when the radiants were down after a defeat, the lightweavers helped inspire them to be perky again. Providing spiritual sustenance. We've certainly seen that from Shallan and Tien, Vathah might fulfil that role in the deserters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 38 minutes ago, MountainKing said: Tien is a lightweaver, lightweavers can make illusions, Jasnah believes that illusions can help with soulcasting, Tien in his time in the army spent a lot of time alone, I don't think we have a confirmation that Tien is truly dead. Tien used the surges to create a duplicate body and then ran away from the army. Tien was a budding Lightweaver, not a full one, according to the WoB. From what we saw of him, he probably hadn't progressed very far yet, since there wasn't glowing, etc. And he didn't really have access to a lot of spheres/stormlight. Plus what Cal said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy92 Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Calderis said: Kaladin held Tien's body until it was cold... That's a pretty convincing illusion if true. Hey he could be Loki. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willshaping Crasher Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 Two proto-lightweavers killed. I wonder if highspren have a beef specifically with cryptics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted May 30, 2018 Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 Confirmation! I knew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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