Killing Shards

[Apollyon he/him]

(Mistborn Era 1 Spoilers)

So we know that in HoA, when Vin went against Ati, they both died, due to their technically equal power. What I’m asking, is if two shards ganged up on one shard in a fight, would the one die and the others just be temporarily weakened? Because, if so, Harmony could go around taking out shards whenever he wants.

Basically, 2v1 shard fight, who would win and who would die?

[RShara she/her]

Yeah I always considered that WoB vague to the point of uselessness, really. "In any way" could mean basically anything.

[Wandering Investor]

Its a bit more complicated than that. Ruin and Preservation's powers are directly opposite of one another, that's why coming in contact without a unifying will (Sazed) is painful and potentially deadly. No skill involved in that scenario. Than there is when Ruin killed Leras. Even thought the powers of Ruin and Preservation were equal at the time, Ati's greater mental capacity allowed him to slowly strangle what was left of Leras. More skill involed in that scenario than power.

And then there's Odium. Take this quote for instance...

Spoiler

Questioner

Does Odium actually present a real threat to Harmony, because he-- *interrupted*

Brandon Sanderson

So Harmony is vastly more powerful than Odium.

Questioner

Yeah. 

Brandon Sanderson

Elend was vastly more powerful than Vin. Who would win in a fight?

Questioner

Vin.

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, there's your answer.

source

Odium also went 1v1 against Ambition and won, then took on both Domination and Devotion and killed both of them, and then took on Honor and Cultivation and killed Honor. Its not just power, but also skill.

Keep in mind, there are a lot of unknowns in these fights. How much available power did the shards have? All the shards started at the same available power level, but then a lot of them invested some of that power, so it wasn't available for immediate use.  Odium specifically avoided investing his power so that'd he would have as much as possible available to him. Also, did Odium have help? We don't know exactly how Odium fought/killed the other shards, and we do not know if he fought alone. There are some theories that Autonomy is assisting Odium, but no solid evidence.

The answer to your question is that it depends on several variables, how strong the shards are, the skill levels of the vessels, and potentially unique aspects of the shards intent/power, and maybe other unknowns.

[Khyrindor he/him]

2 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

Its a bit more complicated than that. Ruin and Preservation's powers are directly opposite of one another, that's why coming in contact without a unifying will (Sazed) is painful and potentially deadly. No skill involved in that scenario. Than there is when Ruin killed Leras. Even thought the powers of Ruin and Preservation were equal at the time, Ati's greater mental capacity allowed him to slowly strangle what was left of Leras. More skill involed in that scenario than power.

And then there's Odium. Take this quote for instance...

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Does Odium actually present a real threat to Harmony, because he-- *interrupted*

Brandon Sanderson

So Harmony is vastly more powerful than Odium.

Questioner

Yeah. 

Brandon Sanderson

Elend was vastly more powerful than Vin. Who would win in a fight?

Questioner

Vin.

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, there's your answer.

source

Odium also went 1v1 against Ambition and won, then took on both Domination and Devotion and killed both of them, and then took on Honor and Cultivation and killed Honor. Its not just power, but also skill.

Keep in mind, there are a lot of unknowns in these fights. How much available power did the shards have? All the shards started at the same available power level, but then a lot of them invested some of that power, so it wasn't available for immediate use.  Odium specifically avoided investing his power so that'd he would have as much as possible available to him. Also, did Odium have help? We don't know exactly how Odium fought/killed the other shards, and we do not know if he fought alone. There are some theories that Autonomy is assisting Odium, but no solid evidence.

The answer to your question is that it depends on several variables, how strong the shards are, the skill levels of the vessels, and potentially unique aspects of the shards intent/power, and maybe other unknowns.

On this, I don't think he took on D&D alone. I'm almost positive Bavadin helped a lot as well, though it hasn't been confirmed.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Khyrindor

[Wandering Investor]

21 hours ago, Khyrindor said:

On this, I don't think he took on D&D alone. I'm almost positive Bavadin helped a lot as well, though it hasn't been confirmed.

So that others know what we're talking about..

Spoiler

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh...

Moridin997 (paraphrased)

(sensing an incoming RAFO): In any way...

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that...

source

So Autonomy may have been involved and even assisted in Dom and Dev's deaths, but it is unknown to what degree. 

Throw in that we know Odium has allies, unknown who exactly, Autonomy is a strong candidate for the one interfering with Harmony, and Hoid's grudge against Rayse and Bavadin, and we have a possibility that Autonomy is working with Odium.

 

OB Spoiler:

Spoiler

But Hoid reached out to Autonomy in his letters, which I doubt he would do if Autonomy was allied with Odium, so its hard to say for sure. 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Wandering Investor

[Khyrindor he/him]

4 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

Throw in that we know Odium has allies, unknown who exactly, Autonomy is a strong candidate for the one interfering with Harmony, and Hoid's grudge against Rayse and Bavadin, and we have a possibility that Autonomy is working with Odium. But Hoid reached out to Autonomy in his letters, which I doubt he would do if Autonomy was allied with Odium, so its hard to say for sure. 

2

True! It's also possible that some of Autonomy's Aspects/Avatars/Personas are allied with Odium, and some are not. 

Let's keep this free of OB spoilers, though, as this wasn't in that subforum.

[Wandering Investor]

17 hours ago, Khyrindor said:

True! It's also possible that some of Autonomy's Aspects/Avatars/Personas are allied with Odium, and some are not. 

Let's keep this free of OB spoilers, though, as this wasn't in that subforum.

I always assumed that Autonomy's Aspects/Avatars/whatever were aligned with overarching goals, but the idea of them being able to oppose one another is a fascinating one, and would explain why Brandon likes her/him.