Solarserpent Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 This contains spoilers for Bands of Mourning. Spoiler I believe that the Excisors are hemalurgic spikes and a mechanical method to guarantee that they remove identity from an individual. When applied to a feruchemist this allows for that person to create unkeyed metalminds. I believe the Set has also done this as they have multiple gold metalminds (enough to give one to an individual not of the higher echelons in the set). The bigger question is how nicrosil allows non-invested users to gain investiture. Perhaps that is part of the allomantic effect on non-invested people and then assume that there is a small amount of ettmetal embedded into the metal to push the nicrosil effect onto others. If so then the wrist medallions have limited lifespans depending on use (not just metal-mind storage). Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 Mmmmm they might be Hemalurgical spikes (it seems likely given the name) but they would have to grant the ability to store/tap Identity, rather than remove Identity from people. Removing Identity would require the spike be used on them to rip out a part of their spiritweb, which would likely kill them. Unless that's what you meant, and I misunderstood? And yeah, nicrosil definitely shouldn't work that way, and yet it does. I have no good theories on this, so looking forward to The Lost Metal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarserpent Posted March 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 Has it been stated that a Hemalurgic spike must kill a person? I think that is the way to maximize power transferred but if all they care about is removing the intrinsic property from the person then I don't think it is necessary to kill the person. Though without identity the person will most likely be messed up mentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Solarserpent said: Has it been stated that a Hemalurgic spike must kill a person? I think that is the way to maximize power transferred but if all they care about is removing the intrinsic property from the person then I don't think it is necessary to kill the person. Though without identity the person will most likely be messed up mentally. He's said that it's possible but very unlikely and difficult to keep from killing a person when spiking something out of them. A large number of bindpoints are in the heart, and I can't think of a way to pierce someone's heart with metal and not kill them Quote Questioner Hemalurgy, does the person having the metal shoved through them have to die? Brandon Sanderson It has to rip off a piece of their soul. That normally results in death. Questioner Because I'm thinking you're going a bit into the future, surgery, precise things like that... Brandon Sanderson It's plausible but-- I mean it would leave the person like-- it's ripping off a piece of their soul. But the same thing happens when you give up your Breath. So you're giving up a piece of your soul. There are-- It's plausible you could take off pieces of a soul without killing the person. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarserpent Posted March 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 Cool! Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isilel Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, RShara said: A large number of bindpoints are in the heart, and I can't think of a way to pierce someone's heart with metal and not kill them. I thought that feruchemical healing could help with it? And with the spikee healing at least some of the wounded spirit-web? So, maybe unsealed gold-minds could provide a solution. Personally, I think that the southeners do practice hemalurgy - they have too few Metalborn and their abilities are too crucial for their civilization to be wasted when one of them dies. Particularly something rare like Nicrosil feruchemy. They likely follow Spook's suggestion in that it is considered a matter of honor for the elderly to make sure that their abilities are transferred before they pass on. And if they can produce unsealed feruchemical gold-minds, it doesn't even need to be lethal. But the excisors are something else, IMHO - I think that they are universal metalminds made from god-metal alloys that anybody can tap and store in and that's where they have various Ferrings and Mistings store their abilities, which a Nicrosil Ferring then transferres into a Nicrosil mind of the medallion, together their own investiture. Edited March 8, 2018 by Isilel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think the excisors are definitely a form of hemalurgy, and I think that that they use normal bindpoints rather than the heart... Quote The_Vikachu I remember reading you answer earlier that a person being used to charge a hemalurgic spike does not necessarily have to die. Would that victim be similar to a Drab from Warbreaker? Brandon Sanderson Well, making a spike rips off a piece of someone's soul. So...yeah. I'd need to see my exact quote from before, but let's say it's not going to leave a person in good shape. source The structure of South Scadrian society and their lack of metalborn, in tandem with their absolute necessity of the need of metalborn makes it seem to me that the have to be maintaining the powers that do emerge somehow. Most likely something along the lines of what Spook talked about in taking the powers of people near death to continue their powers contributing in the next generation. As to the excisors themselves... I have no real clue, but the name alone implies some kind of hemalurgy, and hemalurgy is most definitely more complicated than the some methods of spiking we've been shown. Quote Brandon Sanderson So, since I was doing other things. Hemalurgy-when you spike, you place the spike in a place that determines which charge the spike gets. Kythis Through the heart seems to pick up universally. Brandon Sanderson It depends on where in the heart. It's like acupuncture. This was designed from acupuncture and you get very specific on which nerve you're hitting and things like that Kythis So the spike will never pick up more than one power. Brandon Sanderson Well, the way they know how to do it. Footnote: This clarifies two previous questions.source "The way they know how to do it." So a spike will only ever pick up a single power when rammer through an individual. This is apparently not the only way though. I feel like the excisors are a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuiinteth of isaana Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 What if one used a steel spike on two different people? Could you steal two powers in one spike that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 21 minutes ago, kuiinteth of isaana said: What if one used a steel spike on two different people? Could you steal two powers in one spike that way? I was trying to find a WoB about it, and failing. As far as I know though, it will hold charge, and if you use the same spike again to steal something else it will be overwritten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 37 minutes ago, kuiinteth of isaana said: What if one used a steel spike on two different people? Could you steal two powers in one spike that way? Brandon says, "not the way they know how to do it." Quote Brandon Sanderson So, since I was doing other things. Hemalurgy-when you spike, you place the spike in a place that determines which charge the spike gets. Kythis Through the heart seems to pick up universally. Brandon Sanderson It depends on where in the heart. It's like acupuncture. This was designed from acupuncture and you get very specific on which nerve you're hitting and things like that Kythis So the spike will never pick up more than one power. Brandon Sanderson Well, the way they know how to do it. Footnote: This clarifies two previous questions.source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuiinteth of isaana Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 We don't know that using a spike twice has been tried do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, kuiinteth of isaana said: We don't know that using a spike twice has been tried do we? Considering the inquisitors experimented with hemalurgy for 1000 years, it's probably a safe assumption. Edited March 8, 2018 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuiinteth of isaana Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 True, but they almost always spiked straight from 'donor' to recipient right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, kuiinteth of isaana said: True, but they almost always spiked straight from 'donor' to recipient right? I'm sure they tried a number of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuiinteth of isaana Posted March 8, 2018 Report Share Posted March 8, 2018 Fair enough, I'm basically trying to play devils advocate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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