[OB] Shadesmar

[Naurock]

Does anyone else get the feeling that in future books we're going to have to get used to a lot of Shadesmar? Possibly waging wars there alongside spren? I get this feeling after rereading the chapters on Notum's ship, I think it wasn't Kaladin had the feeling that those ships were made for Radiants to sail beside their spren. They mention strongholds at Cultivations perpendicularity. Notum says he is going to take them to the spren city Lasting Integrity to "someone with more authority". 

Who is this "authority?" Any guesses?

[Bort he/him]

The "authority" Notum spoke of are the rulers among the Honorspren. Basically, he had prisoners he was uncomfortable handling, so he was looking forward to pushing them further up the chain of command.

I'm really hoping that we see a revisit to Shadesmar in the next book, possibly as some kind of concerted effort to free the Horneater Peaks/Cultivation's Perpendicularity, and claim Rock's throne.

[RShara she/her]

I hope so!  I loved learning more about Shadesmar and comparing it to the other bits we've seen of the Cognitive Realm in other worlds.  I really liked seeing the spren with their own personalities when they're independent from a bond. 

I believe that the honorspren have a couple of strongholds and cities?  Notum and Azure mention Lasting Integrity (I think) as the honorspren city that might have seen Nightblood.  So it sounds like he meant honorspren with higher authority than a "lowly" ship's captain.

A fight to free the Horneater Peaks and Cultivation's Perpendicularity would be awesome.  Bonus if some of Cultivation's deep laid plans come to light and help them in their battle.

[JPark317]

Syl said that one of the honorspren observing the budding squires on the Shattered Plains was one of their leaders, thinking her name was Phendorana. Also, Ivory said that he did not believe the Windrunner order would ever rise again because the honorspren had spent the time since the Recreance/their repopulation attempting to "conquer" Shadesmar, and he implied that the other sapient spren had grown to, at the very least, dislike the honorspren for this reason. So us being privy to wars in Shadesmar seems highly possible, if not likely.

Shallan and Jasnah (and their spren) also discuss the need to go to/look in Shadesmar to discern things that are "hidden" in the physical realm, specifically thinking of how one of the spren (I think Ivory) suggested searching through Shadesmar for the Heralds, because, although they've "hidden" themselves in the physical realm, their souls would "shine" in the Cognitive. Just before that scene, Pattern also said that the huge gemstone pillar/fabrial room in Urithiru had strong "memories," leading Jasnah to say she would investigate the room in Shadesmar after Shallan informed her of Pattern's thought/feeling/impression. So, I think that we will be getting a lot more information about Shadesmar/excursions in Shadesmar in the coming books. 

[Song she/her]

I didn't love the shadesmar bits of OB in my first read, mainly because the characters seemed so helpless. But I hope we get to see Jasnah and Shallan together there, that would be a very different experience.

I would be very interested seeing Glys in Shadesmar and to find out how other  Spren feel about the corruption.

[TequilaJack]

I reckon the authority was Stormfather. The Spren was surprised to hear of a new bondsmith and that stormfather had been bonded. 

[Mardragon]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw more of Shadesmar in future books.

One thing that struck me: Jasnah states that she doesn’t believe Shallan can cross realms at will “like she previously thought”.

I guess this is born out in this book, but it seems to me to be in contradiction to the first book when we see Shallan cross over and return a couple of times. (Another time Jasnah had to rescue her, but that time Shallan soul cast a goblet into blood, she came back by herself.)

 

This makes me wonder if Brandon hadn’t clearly defined Shallan’s powers at that time, perhaps thinking she was of the same order as Jasnah at that time. I guess for an in universe explanation one could argue that much of what Shallan did was instinctual and accidental back then, so doesn’t really contradict the idea of her being unable to consciously port across worlds. Or I’m just misunderstanding something,

[CrazyRioter she/her]

She can't cross over physically like Jasnah does because she doesn't have access to the surge of transportation. She basically just astral projects.

Also I hope we get more Shadesmar in future books, the Shadesmar chapters are some of my favourite.

Edited March 6, 2018 by CrazyRioter

[Calderis he/him]

3 minutes ago, Mardragon said:

I guess this is born out in this book, but it seems to me to be in contradiction to the first book when we see Shallan cross over and return a couple of times. (Another time Jasnah had to rescue her, but that time Shallan soul cast a goblet into blood, she came back by herself.)

He had, and what we saw was not her physically entering Shadesmar. When Shallan views Shadesmar, her physical body still exists, and to an onlooker she would be standing there. You see Jasnah do this multiple times in tWoK, where Shallan notes a distant look in her eyes, or like she just became aware of her surrounding after soulcasting. 

Jasnah herself had not ever fully entered Shadesmar physically prior to her escape/disappearance on the Wind's Pleasure. 

Quote

NutiketAiel

When a Radiant is in the Cognitive Realm, does their mind exist individually, like separately from their body?

Brandon Sanderson

Uhh, no.

NutiketAiel

So you physically travel to the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

You can kind of step in between both but you do not separate from your body.

NutiketAiel

So when Shallan is only partly in...she's in both at the same time?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. She's transitioning. It's not astral projection. But no that's a legit question.

NutiketAiel

So Shallan, and Lightweavers, are capable of physically stepping into Shadesmar?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. But the implication is yes.

source

The implication is yes... But in order to do so you would need transportation as @CrazyRioter said in order to make a small perpendicularity.

Quote

Questioner

Is there any way it's possible that somebody could have gotten to the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial without the Well of Ascension?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

And can we know how?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, how many Shardpools would Scadrial have?

Questioner

Two, so the Pits of Hathsin would be so? That's what I theorized.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. So you've adopted the term "Shardpool". That was never really my term, but I've started using it. What happens with a Perpendicularity is large concentrations of Investiture, particularly purely attuned to one of the Shards, will create an access point. You've seen another one in--

Questioner

Yeah, yeah I know these.

Brandon Sanderson

You know which one I'm referencing?

Questioner

Yes.

Brandon Sanderson

That you didn't see a Pool from?

Questioner

Oh wait--

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, he knows, so… We'll move on. *general outcry* Okay, fine. Umm, at the end of Words of Radiance.

Argent

There has to be one there because Jasnah has to leave somehow, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but Honor's Perpendicularity moves.

Questioner

Woah...so...Highstorm?

Brandon Sanderson

*makes non-committal noises*

Questioner 2

Kind of related to that, I don't know if this is a RAFO kind of question, but you call them Perpendicularities, are we going to see this sort of thing created? Could there be, like--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, Perpendicularities can be created. You'd need a lot of Investiture, right? You'd need a ton of Investiture. But, basically what Jasnah does is create a little mini Perpendicularity, right? And slips herself into the Cognitive Realm.

Questioner 2

So it's just a question of skill, not a question of--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. It's hard to pull off, but some of the powers are built to do it.

source

 

[Mardragon]

Okay, thanks for the replies. I guess I misunderstood. With Shallan falling into the beads and Jasnah rescuing her from that bead raft she had created, I assumed they were physically there. Then again, if they were in transition, I.e. partly there physically, that might account for that level of interaction.

I remember Jasnah pushing Shallan towards one of those hovering lights representing the souls of people, which caused her to return to the physical realm. At the time I was a bit puzzled as to why shoving her at someone’s soul would return her. (There was nobody else around when she returned aside from the two of them.)Thinking about it, if Shallan was not entirely physically there, was that the representation of her own soul? So Jasnah was essentially reuniting Shallan with her body. Sort of.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Mardragon

[RShara she/her]

3 hours ago, Mardragon said:

Okay, thanks for the replies. I guess I misunderstood. With Shallan falling into the beads and Jasnah rescuing her from that bead raft she had created, I assumed they were physically there. Then again, if they were in transition, I.e. partly there physically, that might account for that level of interaction.

I remember Jasnah pushing Shallan towards one of those hovering lights representing the souls of people, which caused her to return to the physical realm. At the time I was a bit puzzled as to why shoving her at someone’s soul would return her. (There was nobody else around when she returned aside from the two of them.)Thinking about it, if Shallan was not entirely physically there, was that the representation of her own soul? So Jasnah was essentially reuniting Shallan with her body. Sort of.

Yeah, Shallan was pushed into her own flame.