Rayse/Odium and Tanavast/Honor etc

[Hsien99]

Am a little confused about where one begins and the other ends, so are Odium and Honor and by extension the others just using the bodies of these mortals to hitch a ride kinda like a Gabriel Byrnes as the devil did in the End of Days with Arnold Schwarzenegger? Is the relationship more symbiotic where they influence each other and if so where does Rayse begin and Odium ends etc, or does bonding a shard like that change their thought patterns automatically making them exactly like the shards they bond so there isn’t real difference between the two?

Edited February 4, 2018 by Hsien99

[Calderis he/him]

The Shards are mindless masses of power, with an intent attached that drives the Vessel in ways in which it can and cannot act. When a person takes up a Shard, they Ascend to the power and therefore actions and motivations are constrained by the intent. 

That intent is open to interpretation though. Ruin in the hands of Ati was a very different thing than it is in the hands of Harmony,  even if it were separated from it opposing shard. 

Honor would manifest very differently if it were held by someone like Sadeas. 

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Necarion

Do Vessels have any flexibility in expressing the intent of a Shard, particularly if the Intent is open to many interpretations?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes they do. So, the Vessel's mind and how they perceive is going to have a large influence on how things are expressed and I think all of them have some wiggle room. But there are some deterministic things that are also going to push them.  You know, holding Ruin, Harmony may not go down the same path that happened to Ati.

Necarion

So Sadeas would express Honor differently than Tanavast?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes he would.

source

Investiture seeks sapience. It needs a mind to guide it. If a Shard were left without a Vessel long enough, the power could develop a mind of its own. 

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Leinton (paraphrased)

If Endowment were killed, would the Returned still come?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Somebody needs to hold the magic. If no one holds the magic, the magic will start to gain sentience. Interesting and bizarre things happen then, so I would say yes, but with the caveat that with whoever picks up the power or what happens with the power could end up changing that.

source

I believe this is what happened with Adonalsium. The largest concentration of investiture possible would develop sapience easily, and in so doing the mind would be a part of the power. 

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Argent

You've said that Investiture tends to develop sapience on its own. Is this a function of the amount of Investiture alone (i.e. any pile of Investiture large enough will develop sapience eventually), or does the process require extra effort (e.g. a Command from an Awakener, an action by a Shard, etc.)?

Brandon Sanderson

Under the right circumstances, a pile of investiture will eventually become self-aware. But there is no specific timing. The more investiture clumped together, the more likely--and the closer to human-level intelligence it is likely to obtain.

Of course, if you leave matter alone long enough (on a galactic scale) it will eventually end up becoming sapient too. So this isn't that different. (Well, okay, it is.)

Boogalyhu34

Are humans already sapient and intelligent because their Spiritual DNA tell their innate investiture what connections to make or what weird soul pattern to go into.

Brandon Sanderson

Let's RAFO that for now.

source

As a part of the power, when Adonalsium was killed, rather than able to be split from a dead Vessel, the mind would have been split along with the power. I believe this is the source of the intents. Different parts of the core of Adonalsium's personality colored the pieces he was split into, s while they aren't able to think, they do have a driving force that guides their actions and prohibits other actions. 

I go into my thoughts on intent, especially concerning Ati, in this thread. 

It's a complicated topic, sorry for the wall of text. 

[theuntaintedchild he/him]

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 2:57 AM, Calderis said:

Investiture seeks sapience. It needs a mind to guide it. If a Shard were left without a Vessel long enough, the power could develop a mind of its own. 

Is there a WoB on if Bavadin still holds Autonomy? Because if there was ever a shard that would develop a mind of it's own I would imagine it would be that one.

[Calderis he/him]

6 minutes ago, theuntaintedchild said:

Is there a WoB on if Bavadin still holds Autonomy? Because if there was ever a shard that would develop a mind of it's own I would imagine it would be that one.

As far as we know, yes Bavadin still has it. 

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emailanimal

[Brandon] must have had enough of chuckles every time someone referred to Bavadin as a "he" over the past few years.....

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

Argent

There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

I think that's hilarious.

I've been meaning to ask a similar question for a few days now, I am glad someone else did and you replied. Bavadin is now instantly super interesting to me!

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin is awesome. One regret of finally moving on from White Sand (and doing the graphic novel, instead of doing an entire trilogy myself) is because I won't get to show her off as a character for a while. It should still happen, mind you, but I have enough on my plate right now that I just can't do it all.

Argent

Eh, it's alright. The more we wait to see her, the more practice writing you will have when you do write her, and the more awesome she will be to us Are we going to see her in White Sand first though, or elsewhere?

I've also been talking with a couple of friends about Ambition, who happens to be a Shard I love unconditionally just because of his?her? mandate. So I should ask - how tight-lipped do you intend to be with information about it? Can we prod for a little bit of trivia, or is it too early for that?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to be pretty tight-lipped for now. Let's at least let White Sand finish first--you will find her in there, though her touch on the story (directly) is light. She prefers to allow her personas to become the focus of attention.

source

Considering the way Brandon speaks about her, I'm fairly certain that Bavadin is the Autonomy we'll see. 

[theuntaintedchild he/him]

That is a lot of present tense. LOL. Thanks

 

[Themasterhunter]

Um. Nightblood sounds real similar to this. Especially with perception of ideals.

is nightblood like kinda a small shardy boi