[OB] Adolin will break up with Shallan

[Hsien99]

People always say Shallan this and that but there are two people in the relationship. I honestly think Adolin might divorce Shallan he seems to be consistently overwhelmed anytime Shallan or Kaladin do radiant things, and it might start taking a toll on him. On a branch off topic I think it’s weird that he couldn’t sense the spheres in Shadesmar maybe post skip he becomes champion of Odium father like son etc. Anyway maybe over time and working together he gets closer to Azure and realizes she complements him better. I think it’s an alternative I mean one of the only reasons they were betrothed to each other is because he basically exhausted all other options. We still don’t know why his other relationships never worked out do we? Maybe he is secretly impotent or gay bisexual etc just saying I never think BS said why his relationships don’t work.

[Vissy]

There's a thread for this topic! Don't hesitate to join in.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Vissy

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Hsien99 said:

 Maybe he is secretly impotent or gay bisexual etc just saying I never think BS said why his relationships don’t work.

Brandon explained Adolin failed at so many courtships because he is afraid of not being good enough for them, hence he unconsciously sabotages them. He is not a closeted homosexual nor is he impotent (that we know of, he was probably a virgin before his marriage). In short, Adolin lacks self-confidence in himself which can be explained by how Dalinar treated him as a teenager. It has been a central theme with his character, how he never thinks he is good enough for anything, no matter how good he really is.

For the rest, well, I would argue you may dislike the pairing as it is written, this is your prerogative, but trying to make the narrative say things it doesn't say is unlikely to pan into a satisfying reading of book 4. In other words, just because you don't like Adolin/Shallan together does not mean there is some grand plan to have Adolin either become evil nor divorce her nor start a relationship with a woman he barely knows happening to be more than a decade older than him. The narrative is rather clear on the matter: Adolin loves Shallan, Shallan loves Adolin and they married. Will it be perfect? No. Will they have hardships? Yes. But I think it is safe to guess they will work through them as a married couple.

SA is not a romance novel, the romance arc will never be the main focus: this isn't Brandon's writing style. As such, Adolin/Shallan are extraordinarily likely to remain a married couple navigating through their respective issues and a Desolation as a team. Sure, you may find people willing to have the narrative say whatever you want it to say, but I am within the "canon is canon" bandwagon and canon is Adolin/Shallan. 

[Hsien99]

Quote

he is afraid of not being good enough for them, hence he unconsciously sabatoges them.

I mean I wasn’t implying anything was wrong with being gay or bisexual I just didn’t remember if it was ever addressed why his relationships never worked. I don’t hate them being together but the relationship as it stands right now is definitely rushed between book one and book 3 only 6-8 months have passed. Book 4 will take place a year later and book five a year after that and then a 10-15 year time skip, and Shallan is what 19-20 with severe mental and emotional problems it’s not painting a pretty picture. I don’t particularly like the relationship true but you do because you like Adolin and choose to ignore foreshadowing it’s too Cinderella too fairy tale black and white. You expect me to believe two people while everything else is going on fall in love with each other and want to get married that quickly I don’t bye it. Going back to your quote Shallan is a radiant and he isn’t and BS has stated that Adolin will never be one, so if that isn’t the definition of he is afraid of not being good enough for them so he subconsciously sabatoges the relationship I don’t know what is at this point. I agree relationships will take back sent to the plot but the scenes between Dalinar and Navani are tastefully done and some or most are very important to the overall narrative. IF Shallan and Kaladin do get together which am not saying it’s written in stone she could very well end up like Jasnah or end up staying with Adolin but it will be an extremely rough ride it will not happen until books 6-10. I don’t expect them to get a divorce or break up in book 4 or 5 my guess would be near the end of book 6 or 7 or during the time skip that 10-15 year period. 

[RShara she/her]

There's a whole thread full of essays and essays worth of arguments on this topic

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Hsien99 said:

I mean I wasn’t implying anything was wrong with being gay or bisexual I just didn’t remember if it was ever addressed why his relationships never worked. I don’t hate them being together but the relationship as it stands right now is definitely rushed between book one and book 3 only 6-8 months have passed. Book 4 will take place a year later and book five a year after that and then a 10-15 year time skip, and Shallan is what 19-20 with severe mental and emotional problems it’s not painting a pretty picture. I don’t particularly like the relationship true but you do because you like Adolin and choose to ignore foreshadowing it’s too Cinderella too fairy tale black and white. You expect me to believe two people while everything else is going on fall in love with each other and want to get married that quickly I don’t bye it. Going back to your quote Shallan is a radiant and he isn’t and BS has stated that Adolin will never be one, so if that isn’t the definition of he is afraid of not being good enough for them so he subconsciously sabatoges the relationship I don’t know what is at this point. I agree relationships will take back sent to the plot but the scenes between Dalinar and Navani are tastefully done and some or most are very important to the overall narrative. IF Shallan and Kaladin do get together which am not saying it’s written in stone she could very well end up like Jasnah or end up staying with Adolin but it will be an extremely rough ride it will not happen until books 6-10. I don’t expect them to get a divorce or break up in book 4 or 5 my guess would be near the end of book 6 or 7 or during the time skip that 10-15 year period. 

Adolin's relationships issues were addressed both via a WoB and via the narrative. There are a few moments where he muses on feeling unworthy of one person or another: it is definitely addressed, but as everything having to do with Adolin, it is subtle. 

The sentence I highlighted is your personal opinion. The fact I like Adolin's character doesn't make of me an inferior fan nor does it remove credence to my argumentation. I could throw the ball back and claim most the of the "foreshadowing" some readers are insisting exists is the by-product of them wanting either Adolin/Shallan to fail and/or Kaladin/Shallan to sail. A lot of arguments I have read were made-up for those sole reasons. Thus, this isn't an argument, it can be thrown both ways. Bottom line is I happen to disagree with what is foreshadowing and what is not. I do not think every single sentence is foreshadowing for future narrative, in fact, many elements readers thought were foreshadowing turned out being meaningless. Hence, just because a handful of readers want to read foreshadowing to rip apart a narrative they personally dislike does not make it true, it is all very speculative.

You claim Adolin/Shallan is too Cinderella for your personal tastes? Other readers are arguing Kaladin/Shallan is too trope-y and cliche within works of fantasy to be interesting. Just because a few readers find one narrative unpleasant does not mean all readers feel the same about it. It also does not mean those not agreeing with you are wrong.

Hence, I am no more wrong than anyone else. Some readers didn't like how the romance played out, other readers thought it was fine as it is. A handful, such as myself, agree it could have been done better, but also acknowledge romance isn't a major arc in SA. Brandon specifically stated Dalinar/Navani was his major romance ship, much to many readers dismay, including myself, as I personally find them bland and uninteresting. Once you put all of this into perspective, the fact the narrative goes "fast" makes more sense. : People fall in love all the time and drastic time often call for more drastic moves: several readers commented on this.

I also do not get where you get your "Brandon stated Adolin would never be a KR". The truth is Brandon has been lip tight on Adolin's future: he never stated he would never become a KR, but he specifically said he wouldn't tell us. This is besides the point, OB highlighted Adolin accepted not being a KR and has no issues with it. He feels a tad unworthy, but it doesn't seem to impact nearly as much as readers predicted it would. Rooting for a fall-out based on this reason seems to go against the narrative in OB and how the character has been written so far. It may Brandon will go down this road, I have no idea, but it does not seem incredibly likely.

So again, you have the right not to like a given narrative, to find it lacking, to wish for something else, but for my part, I prefer to stick with the canon and made-up foreshadowing is not canon. It remains speculative until the future book is written down. 

[Hsien99]

5 hours ago, maxal said:

Brandon explained Adolin failed at so many courtships because he is afraid of not being good enough for them, hence he unconsciously sabotages them. He is not a closeted homosexual nor is he impotent (that we know of, he was probably a virgin before his marriage). In short, Adolin lacks self-confidence in himself which can be explained by how Dalinar treated him as a teenager. It has been a central theme with his character, how he never thinks he is good enough for anything, no matter how good he really is.

For the rest, well, I would argue you may dislike the pairing as it is written, this is your prerogative, but trying to make the narrative say things it doesn't say is unlikely to pan into a satisfying reading of book 4. In other words, just because you don't like Adolin/Shallan together does not mean there is some grand plan to have Adolin either become evil nor divorce her nor start a relationship with a woman he barely knows happening to be more than a decade older than him. The narrative is rather clear on the matter: Adolin loves Shallan, Shallan loves Adolin and they married. Will it be perfect? No. Will they have hardships? Yes. But I think it is safe to guess they will work through them as a married couple.

SA is not a romance novel, the romance arc will never be the main focus: this isn't Brandon's writing style. As such, Adolin/Shallan are extraordinarily likely to remain a married couple navigating through their respective issues and a Desolation as a team. Sure, you may find people willing to have the narrative say whatever you want it to say, but I am within the "canon is canon" bandwagon and canon is Adolin/Shallan. 

 

36 minutes ago, maxal said:

Adolin's relationships issues were addressed both via a WoB and via the narrative. There are a few moments where he muses on feeling unworthy of one person or another: it is definitely addressed, but as everything having to do with Adolin, it is subtle. 

The sentence I highlighted is your personal opinion. The fact I like Adolin's character doesn't make of me an inferior fan nor does it remove credence to my argumentation. I could throw the ball back and claim most the of the "foreshadowing" some readers are insisting exists is the by-product of them wanting either Adolin/Shallan to fail and/or Kaladin/Shallan to sail. A lot of arguments I have read were made-up for those sole reasons. Thus, this isn't an argument, it can be thrown both ways. Bottom line is I happen to disagree with what is foreshadowing and what is not. I do not think every single sentence is foreshadowing for future narrative, in fact, many elements readers thought were foreshadowing turned out being meaningless. Hence, just because a handful of readers want to read foreshadowing to rip apart a narrative they personally dislike does not make it true, it is all very speculative.

You claim Adolin/Shallan is too Cinderella for your personal tastes? Other readers are arguing Kaladin/Shallan is too trope-y and cliche within works of fantasy to be interesting. Just because a few readers find one narrative unpleasant does not mean all readers feel the same about it. It also does not mean those not agreeing with you are wrong.

Hence, I am no more wrong than anyone else. Some readers didn't like how the romance played out, other readers thought it was fine as it is. A handful, such as myself, agree it could have been done better, but also acknowledge romance isn't a major arc in SA. Brandon specifically stated Dalinar/Navani was his major romance ship, much to many readers dismay, including myself, as I personally find them bland and uninteresting. Once you put all of this into perspective, the fact the narrative goes "fast" makes more sense. : People fall in love all the time and drastic time often call for more drastic moves: several readers commented on this.

I also do not get where you get your "Brandon stated Adolin would never be a KR". The truth is Brandon has been lip tight on Adolin's future: he never stated he would never become a KR, but he specifically said he wouldn't tell us. This is besides the point, OB highlighted Adolin accepted not being a KR and has no issues with it. He feels a tad unworthy, but it doesn't seem to impact nearly as much as readers predicted it would. Rooting for a fall-out based on this reason seems to go against the narrative in OB and how the character has been written so far. It may Brandon will go down this road, I have no idea, but it does not seem incredibly likely.

So again, you have the right not to like a given narrative, to find it lacking, to wish for something else, but for my part, I prefer to stick with the canon and made-up foreshadowing is not canon. It remains speculative until the future book is written down. 

I feel the romance lacked depth and character it wasn’t flushed out but rushed and glossed over. I’ve read many of your posts and you seem opinionated but you come off as very aggressive in your comments and have a tendency to generalize or read into something where nothing is there. I never said those that don’t agree with me are wrong you seem to take extremes in a lot of posts. IMO the relationship AS IT IS NOW feels cheap maybe as we see more my view will change, and I also think that we only focus on Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin so much because they have more chapters dedicated to them are closer in age and Kaladin doesn’t really have any other close female companion. Jasnah is a interesting character by herself but she is older aka has more back history and is fully grown mentality but is still a unknown quantity.  Kaladin and Shallan are still pretty young still evolving mentality so we don’t know what type of people they may become maybe later they become more like brother and sister maybe best friends hell maybe Kaladin dies in book 5 really doubt it but who knows. I mean these are my opinions just like you have yours, but don’t disregard my opinions while touting yours as fact just because YOU DONT THINK THE FORESHADOWING is there doesn’t mean it isn’t or less important than you think. Do I think people read too much into stuff sometimes yeah I do but THAT DOEST MEAN NOTHING IS THERE.

[Chaos he/him]

2 hours ago, Hsien99 said:

I mean these are my opinions just like you have yours, but don’t disregard my opinions while touting yours as fact just because YOU DONT THINK THE FORESHADOWING is there doesn’t mean it isn’t or less important than you think. Do I think people read too much into stuff sometimes yeah I do but THAT DOEST MEAN NOTHING IS THERE.

I do agree that people shouldn't take opinion as fact but you can chill, please. You don't need to be rude and make your point in all caps. Relax a little. We are all friends here. 

[Dreamstorm]

@Hsien99 you’re far and away not the only one (or even not part of a small group) who believes there is foreshadowing that suggests the ending to this romantic arc in OB is not set in stone. I don’t know if you’ve read WoB on Brandon’s use of foreshadowing (Arcanum is super easy to use and search through), but Brandon says he uses foreshadowing, it is one of his favorite things to do, and he will foreshadow for future books, so it seems any complete analysis of the books has to speculate on such matters. (Whether it will come to anything, and what will actually happen, are of course matters of great debate!) You may want to come join the discussion over at the Adolin-Shallan-Kaladin thread as you’ll find a ton of people who want to dig into the romantic arc in the books and what all these potential clues Brandon put in the books could mean. (Also a lot of discussion on Shallan’s mental state, which I see is another topic that interests you.) 

PS: While caps is variably found as offensive around here (it’s internet yelling), emphasis with the milder italics or slightly stronger underline or bold seems to be decently well tolerated.

[Hsien99]

3 hours ago, Dreamstorm said:

@Hsien99 you’re far and away not the only one (or even not part of a small group) who believes there is foreshadowing that suggests the ending to this romantic arc in OB is not set in stone. I don’t know if you’ve read WoB on Brandon’s use of foreshadowing (Arcanum is super easy to use and search through), but Brandon says he uses foreshadowing, it is one of his favorite things to do, and he will foreshadow for future books, so it seems any complete analysis of the books has to speculate on such matters. (Whether it will come to anything, and what will actually happen, are of course matters of great debate!) You may want to come join the discussion over at the Adolin-Shallan-Kaladin thread as you’ll find a ton of people who want to dig into the romantic arc in the books and what all these potential clues Brandon put in the books could mean. (Also a lot of discussion on Shallan’s mental state, which I see is another topic that interests you.) 

PS: While caps is variably found as offensive around here (it’s internet yelling), emphasis with the milder italics or slightly stronger underline or bold seems to be decently well tolerated.

Thank you for your post. Yeah wasn’t trying to “internet yelling” people just trying to get my point across so thank you for the suggestion.

[Chaos he/him]

1 hour ago, Hsien99 said:

Thank you for your post. Yeah wasn’t trying to “internet yelling” people just trying to get my point across so thank you for the suggestion.

Yeah, just be calm and respectful, thank you  

[Alderant she/her]

Again...as has been said, there is an entire  89 page thread dedicated to to this topic.

A lot of people get riled over seeing the shipping conversations continuaply popping up on the forum, and I and several others have worked to defend the people who want to talk about it across the forum by pointing to that thread, so please go over to that thread to further your discussion @Hsien99.

You will find many people have already debated this topic quite profoundly and you can add your thoughts over there.