The Naming of the Shards and Their Intents

[NotBurtReynolds he/him]

So about the "naming" of the Shards, as far as what people in the cosmere and other Shards refer to them as.  This is something I've wondered about for awhile but I'm having trouble phrasing the question, so I'll just go with this...

How?

So however it occurs, the Shattering occurs. We saw this in MB:SH

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It ended in an eruption of light.  Wisps of mist, both dark and white, streamed down from the sky.  Kelsier smiled, knowing that at long last it was finished.  In a rush, the mists swirled in twin columns, impossibly high.  The powers had been released. They quivered, uncertain, like a storm brewing.

So my first assumption would be that immediately following the Shattering, there would be something similar going on, multiplied by 8...16 columns of powers, waiting to be taken up.

When did the Vessels know what each represented? Could they sense it before they picked their Shard? Were Shards doled by a committee decision or was it a free-for-all as everyone just grabbed a Shard? Did every Vessel get the Shard they wanted or did the alphas of the Vessels seize what they wanted and leave the others to pick from the leavings? I know that's a lot of currently un-answerable questions but I get confused by some stuff when I think about actually being at the Shattering and the choices that would've had to been made.

Because it seems to me that we've been led to believe that it wasn't a  random free-for-all and there was purpose behind who took up what Shard. But in order for there to be purpose in who took up what Shard, wouldn't they have to know what each Shard represented before they took them up? This is an over-simplified metaphor, but could they look at all those columns and see blinking signs over them proclaiming "Ruin!", "Cultivation!", "Dominion!", etc..as in instinctively sensing what each Shard represented?  And if they knew, pre-Ascension, what each Shard represented:

Why would a kind and generous man like Ati take up Ruin if he had a choice? Why would they let a loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individual like Rayse take up the most frightening and dangerous of all the Shards? It seems Rayse being the worse wasn't much of a secret, so you would think if everyone knew that one of the 16 Shards was Odium, they would do whatever it took to keep it out of his hands.

Or, is it a matter of a Shard being impossible to box in with a single word like Devotion or the like?  That the Vessels could sense the general, over-arching power of the Shard before they took it up, but could not know the exact Intent. As in they didn't see "Ruin", they sensed that this is the power of change. Not "Cultivation", but the power of growth. Not "Odium" but the power of passion.  And then once each Vessel Ascended they learned the true, specific Intent of the power they held...and also the truth of what everyone else held. Because it's seems that there is mostly cosmere-wide agreement on what each Shard's name is...And I doubt they held meet-n-greet, post-Ascension("Hi, what I hold is actually Ruin.".."Oh, cool, I'm Dominion"..."Looks like I got Odium everyone!".."Groans...") The only disagreement lies with Odium, as he seems to claim he represents the passions of god, not his hate. So did everyone see all the Shards, generally sense what each represented, pick a Shard/be drawn to a Shard/take whatever was left, Ascend and realize what they actually all were, and then Odium put his fingers in his ears and was like "Nope, not Odium, passion..La-la-la, I can't hear you...I'm Passion...I don't care what you say."  And then everyone was just like, "crap".

 

 

[Yezrien]

One thing we do know is that Hoid was offered a Shard, but declined.

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The Only Joe (paraphrased)

Was Hoid offered one of the Shards we know about?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

You know, I can't remember which Shards I've shown you, Wait, no I haven't shown you that one.

source

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Questioner

Hoid was once offered a Shard, but he refused it, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Was it right after the Shattering?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. It was during the events. I wouldn't necessarily say "right after", it was during this process. I would say this is a RAFO before I finish writing at that time. (Not sure if I understood the last sentence right, but I think that's what he said)

Questioner

And who took this Shard instead?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

source

In both of these, the questioner takes for granted that Hoid was offered a specific Shard, and Brandon doesn't correct that. It's subtle, and it's not strong evidence, but I think this suggests that they did know what each Shard represented. Even if the names weren't set in stone yet, they had some idea of the intents, and they knew which one they were offering Hoid.

If they didn't know the intents until picking up the Shards, if it was just random, then it wouldn't matter which Shard was offered to Hoid, and Brandon would have indicated that. He might have even clarified that Hoid wasn't offered a specific Shard, but just the opportunity to be one of the 16. That's my interpretation.

[Weltall]

Brandon has RAFO'd the question of exactly what the Vessels knew when they were taking up their Shards. He's also described Harmony as taking that name because 'it felt right' so if they didn't know in advance what they were getting, they would have gotten an impression upon Ascending and would have decided what to call themselves based on that impression. The WoBs that Adonalsium could have been shattered in different ways (here's a recent example) is open to a lot of interpretation so we don't know if it means that the Intents formed by some conscious choice of the Vessels, if it was determined by how many ways they split Adonalsium's power (ie hypothetically if there had been eight Vessels, perhaps Preservation and Ruin would have remained a single chunk of power) or something else.

Odium is something of an outlying case but we probably shouldn't try to generalize from him for a couple reasons. One, we have Frost (who's the oldest living being in the cosmere and extremely cosmere-aware) explicitly stating that Rayse's Shard does primarily embody the idea of hatred. He's apparently quite wrong in his assumption that Rayse has been entirely subsumed by his Shard contra Hoid's opinion, but he seems pretty convinced by the nature of the power Rayse took up, at least. Second, the name had to come from somewhere and it's ubiquitous among the cosmere-aware, given that Khriss uses it in her essays. So there appears to be some sort of consensus on what that power represents, even if it's only secondhand from people who have seen the aftermath of Rayse's visits to various worlds. Third, Brandon has mentioned that he originally planned on calling Odium 'Hatred' but changed it to a better word with the same meaning. Lastly, there's the context in which Rayse mentions finding the name Odium limiting, which makes me question just how sincere he was there. I'd take anything Rayse says with a hefty pinch of salt, and I'd examine his words backwards and forwards, while looking at them reflected in a mirror, hanging upside-down, before I'd trust them. The Stormfather also mentions that Rayse is incorrect in his claim that he's the only Shard that cares and we have our own observations on other Shards to back this up.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Weltall

[NotBurtReynolds he/him]

2 hours ago, Weltall said:

Brandon has RAFO'd the question of exactly what the Vessels knew when they were taking up their Shards. He's also described Harmony as taking that name because 'it felt right' so if they didn't know in advance what they were getting, they would have gotten an impression upon Ascending and would have decided what to call themselves based on that impression. The WoBs that Adonalsium could have been shattered in different ways (here's a recent example) is open to a lot of interpretation so we don't know if it means that the Intents formed by some conscious choice of the Vessels, if it was determined by how many ways they split Adonalsium's power (ie hypothetically if there had been eight Vessels, perhaps Preservation and Ruin would have remained a single chunk of power) or something else.

Odium is something of an outlying case but we probably shouldn't try to generalize from him for a couple reasons. One, we have Frost (who's the oldest living being in the cosmere and extremely cosmere-aware) explicitly stating that Rayse's Shard does primarily embody the idea of hatred. He's apparently quite wrong in his assumption that Rayse has been entirely subsumed by his Shard contra Hoid's opinion, but he seems pretty convinced by the nature of the power Rayse took up, at least. Second, the name had to come from somewhere and it's ubiquitous among the cosmere-aware, given that Khriss uses it in her essays. So there appears to be some sort of consensus on what that power represents, even if it's only secondhand from people who have seen the aftermath of Rayse's visits to various worlds. Third, Brandon has mentioned that he originally planned on calling Odium 'Hatred' but changed it to a better word with the same meaning. Lastly, there's the context in which Rayse mentions finding the name Odium limiting, which makes me question just how sincere he was there. I'd take anything Rayse says with a hefty pinch of salt, and I'd examine his words backwards and forwards, while looking at them reflected in a mirror, hanging upside-down, before I'd trust them. The Stormfather also mentions that Rayse is incorrect in his claim that he's the only Shard that cares and we have our own observations on other Shards to back this up.

Thank you for giving me some well thought-out explanations to think about..Appreciate it