Sirscott13 he/him Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 In part 4 we see mistspren on the boat of the highspren, but I cannot recall which order of night radiant they would belong to, are they from the truthwatcher order or something else?
Yata he/him Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 Going for elimination and assuming the similarity with the ones we saw in the Physical Realm, the Mistspren are most likely Truthwatcher's Spren...But it's NOT stated in the book, so it's only a likely speculation
Spoolofwhool Posted January 14, 2018 Posted January 14, 2018 Personally I don't think the mistspren are a nahel bond spren, just another type of sapient spren. I think the Truthwatcher spren should look very crystalline. 1
dvoraen Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 Someone should ask Brandon if mistspren are due to you-know-what (the mists) bleeding over from Scadrial's Cognitive Realm, and taking sapient form because that's what happens on Roshar.
Isilel Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 There was also a sapient _smokespren_ in Celebrant, whom I at first believed to be what the soulcaster Kaza turned into after her suicide by changing into smoke, but the spren was too eclectically dressed to be a recent ex-human, IMHO. So yea, it looks like there are more varieties of sapient spren than just the Nahel ones.
Ciridae Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 I assumed they were highspren, based on the fact that most of the spren primarily consist of one of the essences, and the essence of vapour is associated with the Skybreakers. I'd like to know why they were working on an honorspren ship though. 1
Subvisual Haze Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 4 hours ago, Isilel said: There was also a sapient _smokespren_ in Celebrant, whom I at first believed to be what the soulcaster Kaza turned into after her suicide by changing into smoke, but the spren was too eclectically dressed to be a recent ex-human, IMHO. So yea, it looks like there are more varieties of sapient spren than just the Nahel ones. You mean the ashspren? Where their flesh would turn to ash down the bone and then reappear? I think those were Dustbringer spren. The latent hostility they had to humans seemed to match what we've been told of Malata's Spark. Unless you're referring to something different.
Isilel Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said: You mean the ashspren? No, what I mean is this description from chapter 102 "Celebrant": "The tent was occupied by a single bewildered spren made of smoke , looking odd in a green cap and what seemed to be Horneater clothing" Ashspren are described differently, and so are mistspren sailors, for that matter. Yet this spren is clearly sapient. When I first read this I immediately thought that this was Kaza, who due to being deeply permeated by investiture over the years turned into a smokespren upon her death. But now I am not sure because of mismatched clothing. However, it may have been very cheap and all she could afford, maybe? 2
Kered he/him Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 On 14/01/2018 at 2:36 PM, Spoolofwhool said: Personally I don't think the mistspren are a nahel bond spren, just another type of sapient spren. I think the Truthwatcher spren should look very crystalline. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Truthwatcher spren are lightspren, a reference to the "all truth see's light" saying. I'll go searching and see if I can find it somewhere.
Sirscott13 he/him Posted January 15, 2018 Author Posted January 15, 2018 I thought High spread were Soren that could form a Nahel bond?
Subvisual Haze Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 40 minutes ago, Isilel said: No, what I mean is this description from chapter 102 "Celebrant": "The tent was occupied by a single bewildered spren made of smoke , looking odd in a green cap and what seemed to be Horneater clothing" Ashspren are described differently, and so are mistspren sailors, for that matter. Yet this spren is clearly sapient. When I first read this I immediately thought that this was Kaza, who due to being deeply permeated by investiture over the years turned into a smokespren upon her death. But now I am not sure because of mismatched clothing. However, it may have been very cheap and all she could afford, maybe? Oh nice, I think that's a Highspren. The "Essence" corresponding to the Skybreaker order is Vapor, and their polegem is a smokestone.
RShara she/her Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, Sirscott13 said: I thought High spread were Soren that could form a Nahel bond? They're referred to as higher spren. But "highspren" is a specific type of spren too. Confusing, isn't it?
Spoolofwhool Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 24 minutes ago, Kered said: I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Truthwatcher spren are lightspren, a reference to the "all truth see's light" saying. I'll go searching and see if I can find it somewhere. Lightspren, the Reachers, are more likely to be Willshaper spren.
Kered he/him Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 26 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said: Lightspren, the Reachers, are more likely to be Willshaper spren. Yeah, that makes more sense. Is that an inference of text in OB or from a WoB?
Spoolofwhool Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kered said: Yeah, that makes more sense. Is that an inference of text in OB or from a WoB? Inference of text. Ico's father is a deadspren. His daughter has disappear to chase silly dreams of the past. Timbre said her father was killed by humans which is why she's looking to the singers. Venli and Eshonia both make sense to be Willshapers. 1
Kered he/him Posted January 15, 2018 Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said: Inference of text. Ico's father is a deadspren. His daughter has disappear to chase silly dreams of the past. Timbre said her father was killed by humans which is why she's looking to the singers. Venli and Eshonia both make sense to be Willshapers. Ah, makes sense. I didn't put that together before, thanks.
Isilel Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 17 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said: Oh nice, I think that's a Highspren. The "Essence" corresponding to the Skybreaker order is Vapor, and their polegem is a smokestone. True, but usually there is some kind of similarity between how a Nahel spren looks like in physical realm, if they decide to show themselves and how they look in Shadesmar. And highspren don't look in the least "smoky" in PR: "What where those two spren floating nearby, shaped as small slits in the air? They separated the sky, like wounds in skin, exposing a black field full of stars". This is from chapter 98 "Loopholes". And later in the chapter a Skybreaker master sees them too and confirms that they are, indeed highspren. So, to me it it seems like the "bewildered spren made of smoke" from the Celebrant chapter is of an entirely different type of sapient spren than the highspren.
Subvisual Haze Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Isilel said: True, but usually there is some kind of similarity between how a Nahel spren looks like in physical realm, if they decide to show themselves and how they look in Shadesmar. And highspren don't look in the least "smoky" in PR: "What where those two spren floating nearby, shaped as small slits in the air? They separated the sky, like wounds in skin, exposing a black field full of stars". This is from chapter 98 "Loopholes". And later in the chapter a Skybreaker master sees them too and confirms that they are, indeed highspren. So, to me it it seems like the "bewildered spren made of smoke" from the Celebrant chapter is of an entirely different type of sapient spren than the highspren. Yep that's a good point Sometimes the spren are kind of paradoxical though. Like an honorspren is rather ethically inflexible when it comes to what they perceive as honorable, but their element is the most carefree and unrestricted element: wind. Cryptics are shaped like rational mathematical formulas, yet they're drawn to art and lies. This could be one of those radical contrast situations. In the cognitive realm the highspren is opaque, you can't see through it at all. In the physical realm, it's the opposite, they're so transparent that you can see a slit-view of the starts above.
Ciridae Posted January 16, 2018 Posted January 16, 2018 @Isilel Most of the spren bear some similarity, but other don't at all. If Timbre is a Reacher her physical form looks nothing like her cognitive form. We still don't know what Ashspren and Stonewardspren look like in the physical, odds are that they could also look very different.
Spoolofwhool Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 18 hours ago, Ciridae said: @Isilel Most of the spren bear some similarity, but other don't at all. If Timbre is a Reacher her physical form looks nothing like her cognitive form. We still don't know what Ashspren and Stonewardspren look like in the physical, odds are that they could also look very different. Maybe. But out of the ten types of spren, four of them have massive similarities between cognitive and physical realm appearance. The only deviation we know so far is for lightspren, but we don't even have a very good description of Timbre, as far as I'm aware, other than being comet-shaped.
thegatorgirl00 she/her Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 On 1/16/2018 at 11:13 AM, Subvisual Haze said: Sometimes the spren are kind of paradoxical though. Like an honorspren is rather ethically inflexible when it comes to what they perceive as honorable, but their element is the most carefree and unrestricted element: wind. Cryptics are shaped like rational mathematical formulas, yet they're drawn to art and lies. We haven't seen stonewardspren yet. Maybe that's what the smokespren are. The smokespren could be one of these contradictions. A spren made of smoke being attracted to people with immovable ideas.
Willow Posted January 17, 2018 Posted January 17, 2018 I wonder if the spren on the ship are actually called mistspren. It's what Veil first calls them, and from then on that name is used to describe them. But it might not be their official name. If it is, I don't think they can be truthwatcher spren, as we have a WoB that explicitly says Brandon Sanderson doesn't want to canonize the Truthwatcher spren's name yet: Quote FeatherWriter Can you tell me what the Truthwatcher spren are called, like do they have a name? I know it's not in Oathbringer. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, I'm not gonna canonize that yet. There're things I am still thinking about. If it's more of a nickname, like Lightspren/Reachers and Cryptics/Liespren/Truthspren, then it's still possible. I am interested to see if there are more types/levels of spren than just the Surgebinder spen and the lower spren. We know of at least one intermediate level of spren, since Cusicesh is not on the same level as the Nightwatcher and the Stormfather, but he's apparently a bigger deal than the other sapient spren. So there might be types of spren that cannot bond with humans, but are still sapient, and the mistspren could be one of those. Quote Brandon Sanderson ...The Nightwatcher, yes. Um... There are, I would say, a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher who are also much-- a much bigger deal than something like one of the sapient spren, and that's what Cusicesh is.
recneps he/him Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 On 1/16/2018 at 9:13 AM, Subvisual Haze said: Yep that's a good point Sometimes the spren are kind of paradoxical though. Like an honorspren is rather ethically inflexible when it comes to what they perceive as honorable, but their element is the most carefree and unrestricted element: wind. Cryptics are shaped like rational mathematical formulas, yet they're drawn to art and lies. This could be one of those radical contrast situations. In the cognitive realm the highspren is opaque, you can't see through it at all. In the physical realm, it's the opposite, they're so transparent that you can see a slit-view of the starts above. On the paradoxical Spren: I feel as though this is dissonance between Physical and Cognitive aspects, and don't view it as necessarily paradoxical. I feel it's more similar to magnetism: Things which physically manifest as unreliable and fickle, such as Wind, are drawn to the opposite: Honour.
Sandra she/her Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 On 14.01.2018 at 8:36 PM, Spoolofwhool said: Personally I don't think the mistspren are a nahel bond spren, just another type of sapient spren. I think the Truthwatcher spren should look very crystalline. I assumed that every kind of sapient spren is a Knight Radiant spren, as the rest we've seen are only "minor" spren, like windspren, exhaustionspren and so on. Is there any evidence against that?
Spoolofwhool Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 6 hours ago, Sandra said: I assumed that every kind of sapient spren is a Knight Radiant spren, as the rest we've seen are only "minor" spren, like windspren, exhaustionspren and so on. Is there any evidence against that? For one, it feels kind of weird that there would be exactly nine sapient spren varieties plus the three higher order ones. What makes it so fundamental that only nine varieties could achieve sapience? Secondly, as I said, it doesn't feel like the mistspren are the Truthwatcher spren. They don't reassemble either form of the spren that we see in the PR at all. Ym's spren looks like the light reflected through a crystal, while Glys looks like a reddish crystal snowflake. Therefore, I think it's likely that the CR version if them should look like a living crystal being, and the mistspren are just another sapient spren variety.
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