My problem with Navani

[Bort]

1 hour ago, Wax said:

 

That’s the bit I don’t get.  An introverted person will tire of dressing up and looking impeccable all the time.  They’d go into a jeans and t shirt mode the moment glamour isn’t required.

Jasnah doesn’t do that.  It’s always go, go, go, travel, scheme and scholarships in a lonely pursuit while always dressed up.

So, a very contradictory introvert.

She was raised as royalty, expected to put on a suitable appearance, all the time. And as she herself explained to Shallan, it's all a matter of perspective. If people view you as royalty, then they will treat you as such.

On the other hand, I have a neighbour who spends hours putting on makeup. Not because she needs it, or is going out somewhere, but because she enjoys wearing it, and thinks it makes her look better. Why can't Jasnah be that vain?

[Meandering Monotreme]

Why do you guys seem to think that people need to fall neatly into introvert/extrovert categories? People are complex. People can seem introverted in certain situations and be much more outgoing in others. People are contradictory all the time. There doesn't have to be a readily-available explanation for why people might want to avoid the public eye but still look nice, or why people might find science interesting but also like to take leadership roles. Sometimes people are just like that!

[Calyx]

I don't agree with the ideal that scientists and engineers need to be introverts - I know many who are quite extroverted. In fact, among my colleagues, I doubt the percentage of introverts is significantly higher than the average over the entire population (I'm a chemist).

I don't think any of the traits Navani displays are incompatible; she can be a forceful person, an awesome queen, and an engineer all at the same time. In the real world, we have people in positions of authority that come from a science/engineering background - look at the Pope, or Angela Merkel.

[physicskid]

On the overlap between the sets <Engineer/Physicist> and <Extrovert/Personable> look no further than Richard Feynman. One of the top 5 most gifted/accomplished physicists of the 20th century and famously extroverted.

On the dressing formally while introverted question as an introvert I can tell you why I like to dress up sometimes. Choices in clothing are about sending a social message. Often the message is about what activity you are focusing on right now. I am often comfortable in a button-down shirt and slacks when I am socially exhausted because it shifts the context of conversations away from personal discussions and toward professional and technical discussion which can be less exhausting to talk about.

[rkae610]

On 1/5/2018 at 9:33 AM, Fourth Of The Night said:

Yeah, sorry, but there are whole hosts of EXTRA nerdy people who are extroverts. Almost the entirety of my friendsgroup is made up of very nerdy extroverts, myself included.

Interestingly, I know someone who is rather opposite. She loves fandom things, and she is one of the bubbliest, friendliest, most outgoing people I know. The catch is that she's an introvert. She emotionally "recharges" by spending time by herself. It's just something that's kind of interesting to see. Characters are people, and people are more complex than many people like to get into. I just think it's cool to see these character traits that seem like contradictions which actually make for an amazing person/character.

Edited January 14, 2018 by rkae610

[ICanDream]

I’m an introvert and I read fantasy - the genre of the nerds! Im also a nerd in that I love history, science and Star Wars! Am I an impossibility?

[Kaymyth]

On 1/14/2018 at 3:05 PM, ICanDream said:

I’m an introvert and I read fantasy - the genre of the nerds! Im also a nerd in that I love history, science and Star Wars! Am I an impossibility?

I love both Star Trek and Star Wars. I create causality errors in the geek-time continuum where'er I go.

[meli]

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:57 PM, kenod said:

Personal guess, but looking impeccable makes her harder to approach, and reinforces her authority, which means that less annoying people will be bothering her, and it will be easier to impress and brush away people who do come and bother her.

Being well dressed goes more to Jasnah's desire for perfection than her introverted nature.  I am a bit of a perfectionist myself and maintaining a certain level of dress is part of that.

[Nymeros]

This thread is so confusing. I feel like you dont know that many people OP and have a tiny reference pool.....

[Yezrien]

I never saw Navani as particularly extroverted. She has a small circle of intimates, enjoys solitary work, and rarely has emotional outbursts. Typical introvert.

Her extroverted behaviors, like leadership and political maneuvering, are things she's been forced to learn. They're the price of survival (and her family's safety) in Alethi high society. I bet the teenage Navani had a terrible time learning courtly ways, and resented people who told her that her destiny as a great lady would leave little time for her little fabrial hobby. But she showed them. She was intelligent and driven enough to have it both ways.

Think of a mother with two small children and a full time job, who also manages to write novels. People like that exist. Are they cheating? Or are they just awesome?

[SallyA]

On 1/9/2018 at 2:26 AM, Wax said:

 

That’s the bit I don’t get.  An introverted person will tire of dressing up and looking impeccable all the time.  They’d go into a jeans and t shirt mode the moment glamour isn’t required.

Jasnah doesn’t do that.  It’s always go, go, go, travel, scheme and scholarships in a lonely pursuit while always dressed up.

So, a very contradictory introvert.

But Jasneth is an Elsecaller .. I don't know her surges, but she also soulcasts and does not suffer the effects of those who soulcast regularly.

With Navani & Jasneth you are dealing with the women of the current ruling house as well, so not on the average level of living.  

I see Navani as the consumate Stateswoman, and Jasnath as her well groomed and carefully prepared replacement.  The most telling thing to me was Navani's reaction to Shallan's revelation of the attack on the ship, and the passing of Jasneth .... and I will stop there, because this might be spoiler territory .... but the reaction was "very telling"!!  IMVHO.  Shallan at this point is stumbling through the beginnings of her abilities, but still cannot see much of the whole picture.  Navani however has been immersed in the culture of Roshar and the Alethi her entire, long, life . . .  and therein, I suspect, is what has confused Matt O.  Her projected personality cannot help but convey her understanding, thoug it is veiled to the best of her ability.  Dalinar handles this a bit better.

Is there a list of the surges & correlated aspects on the copperwiki? ... I'll go check.

{February, the short month to Spring!  Whew!}

[Totally_Not_A_Worldhopper]

On 1/4/2018 at 7:02 PM, Matt O said:

Dang... no one agrees with me or sees my point.  I feel so alone. *sobs*

I see your point, and would have agreed untiil recently , but recently made a friend who loves Harry Potter, Sherlock and The Selection series. She is also INCREDIBLY bossy, motivated and loud, with a love of fashion and take charge attitude. 

 

Note: I also have to disagree with your analysis of Introverts on principle. While the friend mentioned above is an extrovert, and I'm a nerdy introvert, many Introverts (especially INTJs and INTPs (MBTI)) are actually very motivated, enjoy "doing" things and are great with people.