Popular Post Windrunner Posted March 4, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 This theory is a simple one. Unlike the other orders of Knights Radiant, the Skybreakers never abandoned their oaths and disbanded. They have remained active, albeit covertly, under the control of Nalan. Firstly, I want to present evidence that one of the orders of Radiants never disbanded, at least entirely. This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at this time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal; and after they withdrew, about two thousand made assault upon them, destroying much of the membership; but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and fl ee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine This epigraph makes it quite apparent to me that one of the orders of Radiants stuck around for quite some time. Nalan offers Szeth a place in their ranks, and Helaran was apparently attempting to join them. It seems evident to me that for whatever reason, the Skybreakers refused to abandon their Blades and their oaths to stick around. As one final piece of evidence, I'd like to look at the spren. First, I'll establish the type of spren the Skybreakers were bonded to. She raised her chin high. "I’m no highspren. Laws don’t matter; what’s right matters." Given Nalan's penchant for laws and one of the divine attributes of the Skybreakers being "just" this makes me fairly certain that the highspren belong to the Skybreakers. Now, lets look at who Jasnah goes to see for information while she is in Shadesmar. "If it’s not happening as it did before, then everything I know could be false. The words of the highspren could be inaccurate. The records I seek could be meaningless."Why would she go to see the highspren? While I'm sure that they are knowledgeable, would not the spren of other orders be better? Why not see the spren of the Willshapers or the Elsecallers, her own spren? They are associated with knowledge and wisdom, surely they would be better equipped? But here, Pattern provides a clue. "Surely there are others among you, though," Shallan said. "Older Cryptics? Who were alive back then?" "No," Pattern said softly. "Not a single one?" "All dead," Pattern said. "To us, this means they are mindless-as a force cannot truly be destroyed. These old ones are patterns in nature now, like Cryptics unborn. We have tried to restore them. It does not work. Mmmm. Perhaps if their knights still lived, something could be done . . ." Stormfather. Shallan pulled the blanket around her closer. "An entire people, all killed?" "Not just one people," Pattern said, solemn. "Many. Spren with minds were less plentiful then, and the majorities of several spren peoples were all bonded. There were very few survivors. The one you call Stormfather lived. Some others. The rest, thousands of us, were killed when the event happened. You call it the Recreance." The answer is clear. She went to the highspren because they are the only spren who survived the Recreance because the Skybreakers did not abandon their oaths. They are the only ones who were alive during the Desolations. 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Perhaps... But what about whoever it is that is guarding Blades in Shinovar? After all, they said to Szeth "There are no radiants left. Only us." - which may mean that they thought that there were no Radiants, or that they were the last ones, and I highly doubt they were Skybreakers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macros Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I kind of like this theory. So far from all the information we have seen nalan seems to be the only herald actively doing anything related to surgebinding. And we now know the shin only have 7 of the honorblades. I can def see the skybreakers refusing to disband, therefore nalan going back for his honorblade Edited March 4, 2014 by macros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Windrunner, that looks good. Very good. Although I was questioning whether the Azish man with the light crescent (birthmark) really is Nalan or some impostor. Where is the rest of the Heralds (Amaram's men of Honor??) . The other point is: Szeth would need a spren to bond - it would not just be given to him (in form of the black shardblade), would it? Nalan as a Herald has abondoned the Oathpact together with the other 8 Heralds (Prologue Way of Kings) - Why would his Order of Radiants not do the same? Despite these questions I think you are right. The strongest argument is Jasnah visiting the Highspren (which are very likely associated with the Skybreakers). Had all of them been "dead", none could have remembered anything. Edited March 4, 2014 by Pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) I kind of like this theory. So far from all the information we have seen nalan seems to be the only herald actively doing anything related to surgebinding. And we now know the shin only have 7 of the honorblades. I can def see the skybreakers refusing to disband, therefore nalan going back for his honorblade Upholding the Oathpact would have meant returning to whereever the Herolds went after a desolation (Braize??). Just taking back the Honorblade wouldn't have done it. None the less, Nalan's Honorblade could have been taken be a Knight Radiant of the Skybreakers before the rest was protected by the shamans of Shinovar. Edited March 4, 2014 by Pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Words of Radiance: Chapter 54 Epigraph said This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at this time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal; and after they withdrew, about two thousand made assault upon them, destroying much of the membership; but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and fl ee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine I read this as some group killing of the radiants that gave up their shards but who did it? the church? sky breakers? or maybe the future stone shamans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Considering Nalan's sheathed black shardsword - it has been identified as Nightblood (from Warbreaker). That could give a hint to the identity of Nalan. Is he Vasher worldhopping? As I remember Vasher, he would be quite off-character. Edited March 4, 2014 by Pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Are we sure it's actually Nightblood, and not just another Type IV with a "destroy evil" command? Does it actually matter? What confuses me is - Nightblood is clearly not a Shardblade, just that the Rosharan knowledge of magic swords would cause people on Roshar to think he is one. I need to know what the timeframe is between WoR and Nightblood (the book). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenAlpha Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 About Nightblood .. In TWoK we saw Hoid walking around with a metal-sheated sword ( as far as I remember ). Maybe in the time of his absence he lost his sword ( Nightblood ) to Nalan. It's obvious that a herald wouldn't replace his Honorblade with an awakened Sword, because he would lose his ability to surgebind. So why not give it to someone who can be manipulated .. creating a useful tool ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I feel it's important to mention that Darkness is likely a Skybreaker as well, if not Nalan. Think about the emphasis on Laws. This feels like a major conflict brewing for the next book. Szeth is now being given Judge Jury and Executioner privelage by the people hunting down Radiants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hoid still has his sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysanja Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 hmm i felt realy odd. im not sure if this Nalan is realy who he said he is. reading it, felt evil, wrong. i would put this one up as one of Odiums. would be nice if it was different =) realy would like Szeth to get some revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 The Law can feel Evil and Wrong. I mean e's approving of Szeth's near sociopathy. That doesn't mean it's evil. Just somewhat inhuman. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bludvein Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 As if the black trailing "stormlight" wasn't enough clue. If they really are Skybreakers, their code has been massively perverted courtesy of Nalan/Darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomeon Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I love this theory, Windrunner! Thank you for taking the time to put it together. To address some points brought up by respondent: Nightblood leaked inky smoke when slightly unsheathed on Nalthis, and is likely not related to stormlight or shardblades. Hoid's sword has been confirmed to not be Nightblood. Vasher is likely not Nalan, but someone else on Roshar (listen to the diction, colors, Cosmere references). I'm with Aminar in his assertion that Justice without mercy feels very, very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenAlpha Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Vasher is likely not Nalan, but someone else on Roshar (listen to the diction, colors, Cosmere references). Could you explain this further, please ? I never noticed anything like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomeon Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Could you explain this further, please ? I never noticed anything like this. The theory is that Zahel is Vasher. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenAlpha Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I always thought he was "just" a Herald, but it makes sense now that you say it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Rereading his Interlude, I 100% am sure. The hints are subtle, but telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 i Always took Zahel as a warrior that once had a spren but made the "wrong" choses and destroyed the bond killing the spren. What in his Interlude make you believe he is Vasher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) His immediate awareness of Kaladin's approach. Lifesense. Complaints about language. No decent metaphors. His reminiscance about a voice in his head. Spren are external, Nightblood isn't. His discussion of Highstorms as something different, and his general Cosmere Awareness. And his comments about his age. Rereading the section while looking for signs he's Vasher certainly make it seems plausible, if not likely. Edited March 4, 2014 by Aminar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysanja Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Zahel is an Ardent. Ardents do no have possesions. so he would need to hide the sword and the fabrical. i think this is unlikely, but i agree that he is more then an Ardent. i dont think Heralds can hide in longterm possitions, i dont think they age. you would see if someone is not ageing for 5-10 years, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Any immortal worth their age can get around the idea of not aging. You can easily look similar in/ of indeterminate age for 20 years, if not longer. We don't know how long he's been an Ardent, or how long he's been in one place. Moreover he admits to losing the voice in his head(Nightblood) years ago. He has no posessions he would need to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenAlpha Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Plus he can alter his body by will. I guess he could make himself look older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 But how would he get Breath to stay alive? Is he using Stormlight instead, somehow? That would definetly give him motivation; the morality of consuming Stormlight isn't a problem in the same way Breath is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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