[OB] Honor's Death and Modern Radiancy

[Mistbinder he/him]

This is my first actual theory post, but let me preface by saying that I’m super tired right now writing it and don’t actually 100% believe this myself, I just think there’s some definite odd things going on that could possibly be connected/explained by Honor being dead. 

So things seem to be pretty abnormal with several Radiants so far. I think that Honor’s death changed how Radiancy can be granted. Honor was still around or was very recently dead when the Recreance happened. So Honor’s death and what that might mean was never an issue for the ancient Radiants. The Stormfather says:

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But in the days leading to the Recreance, Honor was dying. When that generation of knights learned the truth, Honor did not support them. He raved, speaking of the Dawnshards, ancient weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls. Honor … promised that Surgebinders would do the same to Roshar.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (Kindle Locations 21294-21296). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

The three main examples of the oddness are Dalinar, Renarin, and Venli.

First, Dalinar. This is the most explainable, I think. His combining the three realms has never been done before. While looking for evidence for what Honor’s absence might mean for this though, I found this:

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My memory of all this is … strange. First, I was not fully awake; I was but the spren of a storm. Then I was like a child. Changed and shaped during the frantic last days of a dying god.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (Kindle Locations 21272-21274). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

So prior to Honor’s death and the Recreance, the Stormfather was nothing like he is now. Dalinar’s bond as a Bondsmith (the one bound to the Stormfather) is the first of its kind. Of course, Dalinar himself says as much:

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“Honor was alive then. We are something different. His remnants, your soul, my will.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (Kindle Locations 23048-23049). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

This really just establishes that something definitely has been changed by Honor’s death.

Renarin I think there is the least evidence for. It just feels wrong that a corrupted spren would be able to bond with someone. If Glys is the son Sja-anat was talking about, I doubt any of the other Truthwatcher-spren were involved with his decision to bond Renarin, so he bypassed any kind of selective process they have (I’m not trying to imply that Renarin isn’t Learned or Giving or that he could have bonded just anyone regardless of their attributes, Syl and Ivory obviously also acted alone in their decision to bond Kaladin and Jasnah and they embody their Orders’ attributes quite well). Ivory himself says the bond is super weird right after Jasnah decides not to kill Renarin:

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“Jasnah, this is right. Somehow it is.” He seemed completely stunned. “It is not what makes sense, yet it is still right. How. How is this thing?”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (Kindle Locations 22878-22880). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

But Ivory was still young at the time of the Recreance so he wouldn’t really know if it was possible.

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“The ancient ones,” Ivory said again, nodding. He didn’t often speak of the spren who had been lost during the Recreance. Ivory and his fellows had been mere children—well, the spren equivalent—at the time.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (Kindle Locations 9616-9618). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 With Sja-anat potentially trying to work with the Radiants though, maybe she’s showing them that this kind of bond is possible now. She’s trying to get some message across with this. Whether it was possible before Honor’s death though I don’t think can be determined yet. I really got off track there, but I guess I was just reiterating how wonky and one-of-a-kind Glys and Renarin’s bond is.

Last we have Venli and the most glaring evidence that something big has changed. We have the WoB that listeners have never bonded a Nahel spren:

 

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Questioner (paraphrased)

How about the other way around? Can a Parshendi bond a Knights Radiant spren?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Historically, the Parshendi were not made Knights Radiant, or the parshmen weren't.

 

The listeners must be a persistent presence on Roshar since the Fused have to have one to bond to when the new Desolation comes around, so I assume some listeners were left in some kind of manageable form for the humans after each one. All being universally put in slaveform doesn’t seem to be a possibility either since it sounds like something newly achieved in the epigraphs. When there were still hundreds of years between Desolations, surely the listeners must have been capable of displaying attributes that would have attracted a spren, but it never happened. Honor’s death must have changed this.

While looking I know I saw a quote where the Stormfather also said that Honor was more obsessed with oaths themselves as opposed to what the oaths might mean, but I can’t find it now. When he was around, I think he heavily regulated the bonding process, and even if he didn’t, the spren were too afraid to go against him and bond a Parshendi anyway. That’s why it has never happened before Venli.

Tl;dr Honor’s death opens the door for listener Radiants and other possible funky bonds for human Radiants.

Hope I didn’t go off on too many tangents in that, now please pick it apart.

[SpeakoftheDeval]

The only thing I have to say is that it's entirely possible that no radiant spren bonded the parsh in earlier times simply because of social stigma and there was no need to make oneself a pariah in shadesmar by bonding the descendants of the Enemy when plenty of willing, eligible humans were present- it doesn't need to be related to Honour at all

[+Extesian he/him]

Great first theory thread. Add to that list this

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“Unfortunately, no,” Darkness said. “I once thought as you, but Ishar made the truth clear to me. If the bonds between men and spren are reignited, then men will naturally discover the greater power of the oaths. Without Honor to regulate this, there is a small chance that what comes next will allow the Voidbringers to again make the jump between worlds. That would cause a Desolation, and even a small chance that the world will be destroyed is a risk that we cannot take. Absolute fidelity to the mission Ishar gave us—the greater law of protecting Roshar—is required.”

Edgedancer ch 9

 I think the lack of a vessel for Honor will have huge implications as well. Ishar may be insane but I fear there's truth in that statement and surgebinders will become far stronger than they should. 

[Vortaan he/him]

5 hours ago, Extesian said:

Great first theory thread. Add to that list this

 I think the lack of a vessel for Honor will have huge implications as well. Ishar may be insane but I fear there's truth in that statement and surgebinders will become far stronger than they should. 

I'm hesitantly on board with this but I'm not sure -why- that's a thing. Honor binds thing, but that's not limiting them. Honor being dead shouldn't change anything unless there was some kind of oath between all Radiants and Honor to limit their powers. Adding to weird things Radiants do, by the way, is Kaladin creating that windbreak against the storm that Syl didn't think was possible.