Kered he/him Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Coppermind entry for context. Forgive me if this particular idea has already been discussed, I couldn't find any relevant topics with the new info we've gotten from OB. And this is more of a question for discussion than an actual theory. Plain and simple, did Odium influence the Vorin Churches attempt of a takeover which then led to the Hierocracy? In the Dalinar's chapter where he visits Fen in Thaylen for the first time, Queen Fen refers to "strength and passion" being the Vorin way. Now I know it's a stretch, but it's kinda a big coincidence when earlier in the book Odium refers to himself as the god of passion. We also know one of the biggest and effective ways to manipulate vast amounts of people is through religion. A religion that claims to speak directly to god even more so. I could see Odium trying to use the Vorin Church to meet some of his goals and gain some valuable tools. It also gives him the opportunity to mold the minds of the Vorin followers into anything he wants. The only thing that keeps me from fully believing this idea is that if it was Odium behind it then he completely failed. Not only did the church not succeed in taking over the world, they were also reduced to a shell of their former self. Now I could see that still being an upside to Odium, the current treatment of ardents. Realistically there the same as parshmen in the sense that now no one views them as anything but ardents, slaves. That could be another useful tool to Odium, using the ardents as spies and slowly spreading his will through the ardents without the ardents actually knowing. Religion is a powerful tool. Odium knows that the powerful people/beings on Roshar that are his enemies know he's "evil". So he uses the church to manipulate people into following him, or his altered version of his ideals, in order to combat the majority of people that follow his enemies. Sorry for the rambling. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 I think this is completely possible looking at the evidence, but I kind hope this does not happen. I want the Ardents to be responsible for their own actions, rather than blaming it on some external force. Since the Ardents have seemed to have taken responsibility for it, I don't want that to stop. It would make a lot of sense though, looking at what Odium is really like, so I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalbusker he/him Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 The queen's association of passion with Vorinism might also be a politician's way of paying lip service to both the Vorin church and the pagan Passions that many of her people venerate. But yeah, if Odium had any way to influence the Vorin church at all, it seems likely he'd do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamstorm Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 I don't think Odium is the driving force behind Vorinism altogether, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was involved in the Heirocracy, especially given the claims of future sight. They were proven false, but by the Sunmaker who himself is suspect as a brutal conqueror under the influence of the Thrill. (See quote from WoK below.) The Heirocracy priests were also positioned directly opposite the Almighty (Honor) and the Heralds, so they were opposed to our current known "good shard". I suspect Vorinism to be challenged in a more holistic way at some point (emminating from the little conflicts we see brewing with Jasnah and Dalinar who are now even more powerful), which should shed more light on the Heirocracy. Any element of Vorinism influenced by Odium would severely undermine our current Vorin coalition. It seems primed to be a good source of conflict. Quote “The problem, bright one,” Kadash said, “was mysticism. The priests claimed that common men could not understand religion or the Almighty. Where there should have been openness, there was smoke and whispers. The priests began to claim visions and prophecies, though such things had been denounced by the Heralds themselves. Voidbinding is a dark and evil thing, and the soul of it was to try to divine the future.” Adolin froze. “Wait, you’re saying—” “Don’t get ahead of me please, bright one,” Kadash assured, turning back toward him. “When the priests of the Hierocracy were cast down, the Sunmaker made a point of interrogating them and going through their correspondences with one another. It was discovered that there had been no prophecies. No mystical promises from the Almighty. That had all been an excuse, fabricated by the priests to placate and control the people.” WoK Ch 18 Highprince of War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song she/her Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 The worst "result" of it was the destruction of the historical record, meaning Jasnah and others had to work pretty hard to piece together information on the past. That was a pretty damaging and very Odium-esq I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 I believe all conquests throughout the modern history of Roshar was because the Stormfather was performing his duty of finding a Bondsmith. He gave all these conquerors the visions and it drove them to 'Unite' Roshar by the means they believe best. Quote “I have been commanded to unite.” “A mandate from God—the very same argument the Hierocracy used for seizing control of the government. What about Sadees, the Sunmaker? He claimed he had a calling from the Almighty too.” Even Gavilar received the visions. The problem was that non of these conquerors found the words to the Ideals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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