[OB] My thoughts on Taravangian

[Song she/her]

Mr T is the oposite of what the Knights stand for:

Life before Death

Mr T is willing to kill people on the slight chance that they might produce a useful death rattle and wants Szeth to kill as many people as he can in his showy killing sprees. He doesn't value individual life.

Strength before Weakness

This one is less clear, but it is interesting how much he sees his intellect as so much more valuable than his compassion (ie is resentful of his dumb days).

Journey before destination 

He doesn't care how he gets to his goal, the goal is the priority.

I don't know if Cultivation is playing him. But I don't think Mr T will turn into one of the goodies, because he is being held up as someone who feels self justified but ultimately is wrong.

But I am glad he is in the story, particularly after losing the other two most interesting villains.

[Calderis he/him]

@Song the first oath is widely variable in interpretation. If every order followed the version that Teft shared with Kaladin, then the Skybreakers as we know them could not be Radiants, and Malata couldn't be a follower of the Diagram.

This line of thinking is flawed, and OB puts the nail in the coffin. Radiants do not have to be "good." 

[ALAKA]

Can't understand some of the hate here- a villain and/or mistaken, maybe, but power-hungry pure evil?

 Taravangian does terrible things, but they are, to his eyes, the only way to save anything at all from the apocalypse. He weeps for the suffering he has caused- that's not the action of an evil man. As he tells Dalinar (in the discussion about the four farmers), everything has a price. He just takes it to its horrifying conclusion for the sake of the world, and bears the pain of his decisions. 

[thejopen27 he/him]

On 12/12/2017 at 5:13 AM, kaellok said:

i liked him better in WoK and WoR.  In OB, we find out how stupid the Diagram's point really is--fight annihilation by capitulating to its author?  The question before was, "Wow, I wonder if Mr T's alternate method of saving the world, in comparison to the Radiant's, will actually work!"  Now it is, "Just how many people will be killed because of this useless plan?"

Really not understanding any love for Mr T's long-term plans post-OB.

While I agree, I don't like Taravangian... I think Super Smart Taravangian is lying in the diagram to make the average and smart Taravangian follow his plan without giving it away. The diagram comes from a gift of Cultivation (or at least the Nightwatcher, who has great ability in foresight. Super Smart Taravangian knew enough to lay that line in the exact right place, and some part of the gift of Cultivation allowed it to be highlighted in Taravangian's mind alone. (I also think the smart and average Mr. T think they are trying to make all of Roshar part of Kharbranth so Odium has to save all of it) I think Super Smart Mr. T has some secret goal/plan that he is secretly guiding his less intelligent self towards. 

By pursuing his specific plan to preserve a fraction of a fraction of humanity, he closes off other possibilities, he works against those who are trying to save an open ended number, as many as they can. He dooms 99% off the bat because he thinks they are doomed anyway. He has written them off. 

As to the behavior of Skybreakers and Malata, the Knight's Radiant are as good as the person picked by the Spren. Malata is nihilistic because her spren has given up and wants vengeance. The Skybreakers are corrupt because they are led by a madman and the rest have all sworn to obey him. The order that most sticks to a chain of command would be the one most susceptible to be corrupted by an insane leader. No other Skybreaker have advanced to the 5th ideal because no others are willing to question Nale. OB shows that the Radiant can change the moral compass of their spren over time, imagine a Highspren, the leader of the Highspren probably, who has been bonded to an insane Herald for 4500 years.

The Lightspren have given up on humanity all together and Timbre has decided to try on a Singer. Until Syl and Ivory, the Honorspren and Inkspren had completely given up on Humanity. 

I'm very curious to meet Szeth's Highspren, one who will grow with Szeth away from the influence of Nale and the other Skybreakers. I'm also curious to meet the Decay spren who who will bond whichever POV character we get from the Dustbringers (my guess is that it's Ash. The herald of beauty and creation becomes or Radiant of destruction!)

Edited January 8, 2018 by thejopen27