[OB] Crackpot Theory: Bavadin

[TheOneKEA]

I have another crackpot theory: Could Bavadin be a Dysian Aimian, or a member of a similar species that distributes its consciousness across multiple organisms?

I keep pondering all the WoBs on how weird Bavadin is, and all the on-screen weirdness of the Dysian Aimians, and I keep making this connection between these things. It seems obvious to me...

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

Good theory! That would certainly explain a lot. I’m trying to find out whether Aimians existed before the Shattering, and this WoB says that humans and parshmen did, but nothing about Aimians. So it could be possible. 

And it’s totally possible that an Aimian could hold a Shard

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

One point in favor of this theory is that Autonomy on Taldain is invested as the Sun itself. No other shard has taken on such a singular and deific manifestation as Autonomy has. When your organism is represented by the sole source of energy for an entire solar system, what logical leap is it to view your body or self as an extension in planetary terms. Like the head is to a body, the sun is to a composite being of multiple planets spread out through space. This is very similar to the way Dysian Aimian view identity. Constituent pieces of a larger whole, the semi-sentient composite constituting the one of I.

Also, I just read the prose version of White Sand and (Spoilered for those who haven't read it):

Spoiler

The Kershtian religion is just plain odd. Also, the way that Bavadin invests the land, shining down from the heavens and infusing even the most infinitesimal piece of matter (a grain of sand) with it's own autonomous investiture, makes me think that Autonomy as Bavadin interprets his intent, is the autonomous action of singular parts that make up a constituent whole. It is in keeping with the Dysian Aimian's view of Identity and it is definitely the path to the BORG!

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
Clarification (stupid hairless ape brain)

[NotBurtReynolds he/him]

I’m in Camp Bavadin the dragon myself, but a Dysian Aminan would be sweet. I’ve always assumed all the Shards were of the 3 sapient species on Yolen

[PhineasGage]

2 hours ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

3 sapient species on Yolen

Do we know what all 3 of these are? I got humans, dragons, and a third unknown (I am not even sure I am right with this)? I mean, that doesn't mean that Aimians (either Dysian or Siah - tho for this theory to work Dysian would be better) weren't originally from Yolen and are another immigrant species. 

I get so confused trying to hold all the cosmere info in my head..... 

[aemetha he/him]

A third race is featured in the sample chapters of Liar of Partinel, but it isn't at all canon, nor to be discussed in this section of the board. As per WoB's there are two known races of Yolen as you have noted and a third unknown race that may or may not be described in the Liar of Partinel original.

[PhineasGage]

17 minutes ago, aemetha said:

A third race is featured in the sample chapters of Liar of Partinel, but it isn't at all canon, nor to be discussed in this section of the board. As per WoB's there are two known races of Yolen as you have noted and a third unknown race that may or may not be described in the Liar of Partinel original.

Ok, I haven't read those. And as they can't be used for evidence it makes this theory very difficult to discuss - for me anyway - I am not good without canon evidence. 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Bavadin as a Dysian Aimian would certainly be interesting. The biggest problem is that Dysian Aimians seems to be native to Roshar. In order to take part in the Shattering, she would have had to worldhop to Yolen without surges or perpendicularities... unless Adonalsium had a perpendicularity on Roshar.

[aemetha he/him]

3 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

The biggest problem is that Dysian Aimians seems to be native to Roshar.

There is some reason to suspect Aimians may not be native to Roshar.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/160-words-of-radiance-dayton-signing/#e2881

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Basic stuff about the 2 types of Aimians, both of which have extended control of their own biology, both of which more or less refugees. He also said that they have cosmere significance.

Of course, there are two very different races of Aimians so it could be that one race came from off world and one race didn't. Refugee could just be a reference to the scouring. Cosmere significance is also very vague. I certainly wouldn't discount the possibility of them coming from off-world.

[NotBurtReynolds he/him]

I don't know anything about them, as I haven't read the non-published stuff, but the name of the 3rd species is canon. I'll spoiler the Wob, anyways.

Quote

 

Spoiler

 

Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017)
#2 Share

 

Play/Pause

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

For a hardcore fan, one clue you'd give out... [About] Hoid, or Dragonsteel, or Restares.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

...The problem is, so little of Dragonsteel is still canon. I've pulled so much out of it.

The Sho Del are still canon, and Hoid has an interesting relationship with several of them.

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by NotBurtReynolds

[aemetha he/him]

Curious. If it is canon does that mean we can talk about it as it relates to the topic here, but without giving away plot spoilers from Liar? Confusing. I'm just going to post a single line in a spoiler here only addressing the issue as it pertains to the topic with no plot spoilers. If anyone wants to look at it they can. I'll report my post so a moderator can decide if it crosses any lines regarding spoilers from non-published works.

Spoiler

The Sho Del are not depicted as a hive mind type entity.

 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Thanks for the upvote @aemetha, you get an upvote and a toast. I am more positive to this idea now than I was before, even though I still don't buy it wholesale. Do we know if Brandon might have added more races to Yolen since he wrote Liar/Dragonsteel? Are three still the canon number. I will look through Arcanum myself, but if anyone happens to know, they could save me some trouble.

EDIT: I found my information. It looks like only three sentient races on Yolen is still canon. I did find a WoB that might kill this theory though:

Quote

Are all the original sixteen Shardholders from Yolen?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

So if there are only three races (Sho Del, humans and dragons), and all vessels are from Yolen, then Bavadin really can't be an aimian. Of course, the question gives Brandon wiggle room. You could interpret "from Yolen" as being on Yolen when the Shattering happened, or living there. But I think Bavadin = aimian is quite unlikely, unfortunately. It is a cool idea though.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Toaster Retribution

[Chaos he/him]

I'll put this in Cosmere Theories so you guys can discuss Liar, but that's generally fair game as it is publicly available.

[NotBurtReynolds he/him]

44 minutes ago, aemetha said:

Curious. If it is canon does that mean we can talk about it as it relates to the topic here, but without giving away plot spoilers from Liar? Confusing. I'm just going to post a single line in a spoiler here only addressing the issue as it pertains to the topic with no plot spoilers. If anyone wants to look at it they can. I'll report my post so a moderator can decide if it crosses any lines regarding spoilers from non-published works.

  Reveal hidden contents

The Sho Del are not depicted as a hive mind type entity.

 

Yea, confuses me too I haven't read the Dragonsteel Prime chapter he released on his website a few months ago, but I think they were mentioned by name(which  is why it is now canonized)but little to no information was given about their qualities.

[Borio Singaldi he/him]

For some reason, this makes me think of how the Aimians are extremely protective of whatever is on their homeland (as shown in the Oathbringer Kaza interlude). They said that it possessed secrets that if revealed could potentially lead to "the ends of worlds". More than one world. And IIRC, Autonomy/Bavadin has been to many worlds.

Then again, this is a very loose connection to make, but you've made a very interesting theory regardless, OP! This could really lead somewhere...

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

4 minutes ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

Yea, confuses me too I haven't read the Dragonsteel Prime chapter he released on his website a few months ago, but I think they were mentioned by name(which  is why it is now canonized)but little to no information was given about their qualities.

I am pretty sure that they are mentioned in some WoBs as well, which is another source of canonization. Anyways, they sound like a big piece of worldbuilding, so I can't see Brandon just throwing them out the window. I would guess that at least one of the vessels is Sho Del (maybe Ambition? After all, Uli Da sounds unlike any other Shard-name this far, and is unlike Hoids and Frosts names as well).

[NotBurtReynolds he/him]

Yea, I would think the Sho Del would have at least one Vessel. Good thought on Ambition, too. Uli Da seems to fit more naturally with Sho Del linguistically, given the names we have representing the other 2 races.

Speaking of names, I'm guessing Cephandrius was Hoid's Yolen name? Was this known prior to OB?

[Carbonationspren he/him]

1 hour ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

Speaking of names, I'm guessing Cephandrius was Hoid's Yolen name? Was this known prior to OB?

Yes. You learn this in Mistborn: Secret History, when

Spoiler

Kelsier is telling Leras about Hoid and Leras calls Hoid an "old friend."