Brightlord M. Alhstrom Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, shawnhargreaves said: What other Shard's magic do you propose is being co-opted here? The "other shard in my logic is Adonalsium himself. Though I might need to edit my view a little. Essentially, here is what I see: the original bonding of spren and Parshendi was of Adonalsium. Cultivation and Honor didn't change that. Odium did. He used it and twisted it to allow him to use the Parshendi as his tools. The changes include the forms of power, the resurrection-like abilities, and the Fuzed's Voidbinding. Originally I was saying that any changes that Honor and Cultivation did would have been within the scope and limitations of what Adonalsium did, but come to think of it, I'm not sure Honor and Cultivation really did anything to the way the Parshendi's forms work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhargreaves Posted November 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Slight aside from this thread: I find it very interesting that we haven't seen any Fused in Dalinar's visions. There are humans, Parshendi, Aimans, Thundarclasts, and Knights Radiant (carefully written in such a way that it can be left ambiguous which side most of them are fighting on) but no mention of anything resembling a Fused. Not sure what that means! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What's a Seawolf? Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 11/25/2017 at 8:33 PM, shawnhargreaves said: At some point during all of this, Odium manages to take over the Fused. Their eyes turn red. I really like this timeline and had completely missed the significance of Fused having red eyes. On 11/27/2017 at 3:45 AM, Brightlord Maelstrom said: The reason the Fuzed and the Forms of Power have Red eyes is that Odium corrupted the Listeners, who weren't of Honor at all, but of Adonalsium. Though this quote is probably a simpler explanation. Either way, Odium took them over from somebody, which didn't even cross my mind when reading. It was obvious he was controlling/influencing them in some way, but red eyes=hijacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatsmorn Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) I think true spren was bonding with Singers at some point, thus songs about betrayal of spren and stuff. Edited November 28, 2017 by Beatsmorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBossanova Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Just a additional data point to consider: there is a WoB that the Listeners are of Cultivation and Odium, but not of Honor. Take that for what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondMind Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 33 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said: Just a additional data point to consider: there is a WoB that the Listeners are of Cultivation and Odium, but not of Honor. Take that for what you will. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenBossanova Posted November 28, 2017 Report Share Posted November 28, 2017 Questioner (paraphrased) Are the Parshendi of Odium? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Not originally. -- PadraicSeebrr (paraphrased) Are the Parshendi of Honor? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) No. -- Questioner (paraphrased) Are the Parshendi of Cultivation? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Not originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightlord M. Alhstrom Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 50 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said: Questioner (paraphrased) Are the Parshendi of Odium? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Not originally. -- PadraicSeebrr (paraphrased) Are the Parshendi of Honor? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) No. -- Questioner (paraphrased) Are the Parshendi of Cultivation? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Not originally. That almost seems to be confirming what I was saying, that the Listeners are being corrupted by Odium (and Cultivation as well?) which would be why they have the red eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echaozh Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Now, if the Fused had red eyes for being corrupted by Odium's power, and humans were with Odium from the start, why did Amaram and his men's eyes became red when they were influenced by Moelech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightlord M. Alhstrom Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 2 hours ago, echaozh said: Now, if the Fused had red eyes for being corrupted by Odium's power, and humans were with Odium from the start, why did Amaram and his men's eyes became red when they were influenced by Moelech? Well, it says that the Humans came with and worshipped Odium. But that doesn't mean that he made them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightlord M. Alhstrom Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 OK, so a recent WoB actually throws in some interesting possibilities: Quote Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW] Is all Investiture in the Cosmere associated with a Shard? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, well, okay. So this is a complicated one. So, Investiture predates the Shattering of Adonalsium, all Investiture was from Adonalsium, all Investiture got assigned to one of the 16 Shards when Adonalsium was Shattered. Some of the Investiture was not on Yolen but location is irrelevant. So Investiture is related to Shards even on planets where none of the Shards are inhabiting. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256-oathbringer-london-signing/#e8605 1 So, I guess what this could mean is that originally the whole mechanics of the Parshendi and Spren was of Adonalsium, then was turned over to Honor, Cultivation, or both, when Adonalsium was Shattered. As such, Odium doing stuff to the Parshendi would be a situation where a shard is twisting or corrupting another shard's investiture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llarimar Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 On 11/27/2017 at 1:32 PM, shawnhargreaves said: The Parshendi appear to have been capturing lesser spren in their gemhearts all along (higher spren, apparently not, but I don't think we have 100% proof of that yet). Taravangian mentioned to Dalinar that the Shardplate shields are made by imprisoning a spren that could have bonded a Knight Radiant. I think this line is kind of brushed over in the moment because Dalinar is delirious at the time from the return of the Thrill, but I think it might be important moving forward. What exactly is Taravangian saying here? Were they somehow able to imprison honorspren, or another KR spren inside of a gemstone? If they are able to do that, it makes me wonder if the Parshendi can do the same, forcefully infusing their gemhearts with higher spren against their will. On 11/27/2017 at 2:28 PM, Ryder said: On 11/25/2017 at 6:33 PM, shawnhargreaves said: Parshendi are native to Roshar. Like all native Rosharan species, they have gemhearts which can hold spren. These spren grant abilities which form a core part of all Rosharan lifecycles. Only lower spren are used for this, because the higher types of spren (which have individual consciousness) are not interested in letting themselves get trapped in someone else's gemheart. Regarding this point specifically, it seems like the higher spren, up until Timbre, hold some sort of grudge against the Parshendi for reasons unknown: Quote Brandon Sanderson Sapient spren have a choice of whether they get bonded or not, unless you entrap them some way. But simply attracting them...simply going into the Highstorm with one wouldn't work, what you said is 'attracted a spren', so, to answer that actually... The thing is, honorspren, all the spren of Honor and Cultivation, not honorspren capital, Honorspren or whatever... The spren that create the orders of the Knights Radiant have not, in the past, been attracted to Parshendi because of certain events in the past. Maybe the Parshendi at one point tried to imprison the higher spren, or maybe even succeeded, creating distrust between the higher spren and the Parshendi ever since. Brandon says that the higher spren are not attracted to the Parshendi, but that doesn't mean that the Parshendi cannot forcefully entrap them in their gemhearts somehow. When the Knights Radiant began bonding with the higher spren and gaining powers, Odium might have prompted the Parshendi to do the same. Before this time, they may have only infused their gemhearts with spren for strictly practical purposes (to plant fields, to design houses, to mate) and had never conceptualized using spren to gain power. Odium began prompting them to imprison higher spren, to compete with the Knights Radiant. Maybe these higher spren, once captured by the Parshendi, became Voidspren - corrupted and forevermore the servants of Odium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 I wonder how many Fused exists. I am thinking in the hundreds or even the thousands. I doubt any solution to them would be small scale, any method needs to affect them all at once. i get how they posses living listeners, but where do thunderclasts come from. I would have believed gem heart creatures being possessed rather than random stone golems. I wonder if if there is a connection between their existance after death and their power over stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llarimar Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 On a quick sidenote, I'm still new to this site, so I haven't figured out all the jargon. Does WoB mean "Words of Brandon" or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemetha Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Llarimar said: Does WoB mean "Words of Brandon" or something like that? Yes, they are collated in the Arcanum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llarimar Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 Just now, aemetha said: Yes, they are collated in the Arcanum. All right, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurgreatMarshall Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 On 11/27/2017 at 3:53 PM, shawnhargreaves said: We've already seen multiple examples of individuals switching allegiance between Honor and Odium, but none of one Shard somehow co-opting the entire magic system of another to give to their minions. Isn't that basically what hemalurgy is? Ruin co-opting Allomancy by way of metal spikes? I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Odium harvested pieces of Surgebinding spirit web to give to the Fused as voidbinding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhargreaves Posted December 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 9 minutes ago, Beltway2A said: Isn't that basically what hemalurgy is? Ruin co-opting Allomancy by way of metal spikes? I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Odium harvested pieces of Surgebinding spirit web to give to the Fused as voidbinding. This is more of a meta reason than something I can justify from the next, but I think it's still valid line of reasoning: I don't think Brandon would be so unimaginative as to repeat himself that closely. Either giving Honor and Odium the same Surgebinding magic, or giving Odium something so close to Ruin's Hemalurgy that the Fused could have stolen Surgebinding - these are just not different enough. We should be looking for voidbinding to be something fresh and exciting and unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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