oathbringer spoilers [OB] The Last Days of Honor

[TheDarkDesperado he/him]

Sorry for the vague title but something I noticed in Oathbringer was comments by the Stormfather regarding changes to Honor, I will check again to get more specifics but wanted to start the conversation first, but he started to act oddly as time went on. Honor began to care only for the letter of oaths and not the spirit and what he said to the Knights Radiance that helped cause the Recreance doesn't sound like what we've seen in visions and discussion from the Stormfather. My question is simply "why?"

Influence from the collective actions and perceptions of humans?

Another shard?

Some grand plan that requires him to act quite odd or otherwise cripple himself before his death? 

Hoid?

Or was this a byproduct of him being in the process of dying? If so, how was he killed only now? (The corruption of the Oathpact would be my best bet)

Let me know what you think and tell me if I'm an idiot and it was spelled out in Oathbringer but I'm not finding anything. Page 1052 has some stuff with the Stormfather that planted the seed of this question.

[Argent he/him]

My top theory here has been that Tanavast was simply becoming overcome with Honor's intent. We know that Shards can, over time, strongly influence their Vessels, and I figured that's what was happening there. 

[Seloun]

I'd assume it's related to the Heralds breaking/greatly straining the Oathpact. The Heralds also seem to have gone mad (though perhaps they're recovering now) some time after the end of the previous Desolation. Presumably Honor was somehow linked with the Heralds, or affected by their condition in some way.

One possibility is that Honor essentially proxied himself through the Honorblades with the Heralds. Much as how the KR spren 'die' or 'break' when their bondmate breaks their oath, Honor may have been bonded in a similar way with the Heralds. Basically Honor might have been the spren-equivalent for the Heralds, and when the Heralds started to act outside of their oaths (possibly not just the Oathpact) it weakened him and his faculties much like what happens to Syl in WoR.

It'd be interesting to consider - if we pursue this line of reasoning further - if the means of resurrecting the dead spren (much as Adolin seems to be doing) could also essentially result in resurrecting of Honor or otherwise re-forming his Shard. If Adolin succeeds, it could be a blueprint for something a lot bigger...

[Canucck]

19 hours ago, Argent said:

My top theory here has been that Tanavast was simply becoming overcome with Honor's intent. We know that Shards can, over time, strongly influence their Vessels, and I figured that's what was happening there. 

I think it was probably a combination of both the Vessel being slowly killed (like Laras) and the Shard's intent overpowering the Vessel more and more as it died.

Either way, I think you can look at the Skybreakers to see some of the changes in Honor. The current skybreakers swear preset Oaths. They're told what to say, they just have to get to a point where one of the spren says "good enough" and bonds them... we never even heard Szeth talk to or mention his skybreaker spren. I think that's very in line with Honor focusing more on the letter of the oaths instead of spirit of it. The skybreaker oaths don't really seem like KR Ideals anymore.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Canucck

[emailanimal he/him]

On 11/15/2017 at 9:36 PM, Argent said:

My top theory here has been that Tanavast was simply becoming overcome with Honor's intent.

That was my thought too.  We've been tricked a bit by linguistics. We understand the semantics of the word "Honor" in a very broad sense, and in the context of fantasy, this word has clear connotations. So, when a god in a high fantasy epic is named "Honor" we expect... well, a lot.  

But as the three books of the series progressed, what we've been handed is a clear indication that the key Intent of Honor is to ensure that the oaths (and contracts) are not broken. This is a much more narrow reading of what Honor is.