Toaster Retribution he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 We have talked a lot about morality here on the Shard recently. While Szeth, King T and Amaram are (somewhat) divisive subjects, no one seems keen to defend old Torol. So, is there anyone who feel that Sadeas, had he gotten to live, could have redeemed himself?
CaptainRyan he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said: So, is there anyone who feel that Sadeas, had he gotten to live, could have redeemed himself? I think Sadeas was a product of his generation (for lack of a better term). He was fully committed to the "might makes right" Alethi philosophy and, as such, he would not have deviated from his course. If he had lived I think, despite everything, he would have continued to try and make himself the leader of the Alethi. That being said, I assume there are several plausible scenarios Brandon could have written where Sadeas realizes his mistakes and "redeems" himself but I don't think that was ever in the cards.
Walin he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 Incoming rant— Words of Radiance spoilers Spoiler He was gonna attempt to seize power during a Desolation. There’s no way he would have redeemed himself; when he kept plotting Dalinar’s death even after getting Oathbringer, he committed himself to his course. I mean, honestly. He was going to try to take control of Urithiru after the storming Desolation started. And Dalinar was proved to be sane! There wasn’t even a reason to seize power! Dalinar was the best candidate for acting dictator, the Knights Radiant returned, and Sadeas was going to call it lies, just to undermine Dalinar! ... I agree with @CaptainRyan that he was a product of his generation. In Alethi culture, he was following the ideal. However, he didn’t seem to grasp that when the world is at stake, the games must change. He thought that powher was all-important, and survival was only secondary. If his course didn’t change after Spoiler The Everstorm arrived, Sadeas wouldn’t ever follow a path to redemption. Unless you’re talking about death-bed repentance like Darth Vader, which doesn’t make up for the far past, just the immediate history.
CaptainRyan he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 Op is @Toaster Retribution and commenter @Walin claims to be invested toast... I do not see this ending well... 1
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Author Posted November 7, 2017 57 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said: Op is @Toaster Retribution and commenter @Walin claims to be invested toast... I do not see this ending well... @Walin I will toast you!
Walin he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Posted November 7, 2017 I guess changing my status from toast to waffles to be more appropriate to Scadrial (and thus Harmony) wouldn’t help, since toasters have a waffle function... Wait what’s retribution?
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Author Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Walin said: Wait what’s retribution? Vengeance (pretty much anyway, english is my second language). It is a name I came up with on another thread, when creating names that would fit Threnody. It makes very little sense, but that is why it is funny (in my opinion.) Edited November 7, 2017 by Toaster Retribution
Walin he/him Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 @Toaster Retribution The best usernames are either a fake word or a nonsensical combination of real words. I haven’t used a username like that in a while, I just know a lot of good usernames like that.
Fifth of Daybreak he/him Posted November 10, 2017 Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) There's one quote that kills his chance at redemption for me, especially in the light of another: Quote Others said Parshendi warriors on the field never surrendered, but he’d seen them try it once, long ago, in the first year of the war. They’d laid down their weapons. He’d slaughtered them all personally, with Shardhammer and Plate, beneath the eyes of their retreating companions watching from a nearby plateau. Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 347). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. Quote Adolin lowered his waterskin, swishing the water in his mouth. He met Dalinar’s eyes, his face haunted and grim. He knew. Just as Dalinar did. Just as the men likely did. There would be no surviving this battle. The Parshendi left no survivors. Sanderson, Brandon. The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 907). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. He saw to it personally. Brandon is a talented writer, and I think he put those talents to work making Sadeas irredeemable. Edited November 10, 2017 by Fifth of Daybreak 2
shawnhargreaves he/him Posted November 10, 2017 Posted November 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Fifth of Daybreak said: There's one quote that kills his chance at redemption for me, especially in the light of another: He saw to it personally. Brandon is a talented writer, and I think he put those talents to work making Sadeas irredeemable. Interesting. I read that bit as a parallel with the Dalinar's younger days, where he apparently also did a lot of personal slaughtering! I hope we'll learn more about this in Oathbringer, but it seems to me that the two of them started out in quite a similar place, from where they headed in different directions. If Dalinar can be redeemed from alcoholic warlord under thrall of the Thrill, why not Sadeas?
Fifth of Daybreak he/him Posted November 10, 2017 Posted November 10, 2017 49 minutes ago, shawnhargreaves said: If Dalinar can be redeemed from alcoholic warlord under thrall of the Thrill, why not Sadeas? Dalinar wants to change.
Weltall Posted November 10, 2017 Posted November 10, 2017 Dalinar seems to have had a lot of factors helping him out. Even what we can take from just the first two books (ie, ignoring all the backstory we're going to get in a couple days) shows that he was powerfully influenced by his perceived failure to protect Gavilar on the night of the latter's assassination, which helped catalyze his study of the Way of Kings and his desire to act more honorably per older understandings of the concept rather than under current Alethi standards like Sadeas. That he was also on the receiving end of visions from Honor didn't hurt but it seems like the biggest motivator for him was remembering Gavilar telling him to 'follow the Codes' on that fateful night. Sadeas never seems to have gotten a moment like that, or whenever a potential eureka moment came he completely ignored it. Like failing to recognize all the implications of Dalinar giving up Oathbringer, which really should have started the gears turning in his head if they were ever going to. That he completely failed to grasp the implications of the Everstorm arriving was just the last straw. So yeah, I think that if Sadeas had been exposed to a powerful enough stimulus at some point in the past he might have become a different enough man that a redemption arc would have been a possibility but with what actually happened he was too set on his course for that to be a realistic option. I kind of think of him as the Londo Mollari of Stormlight Archive, having initially good intentions that end very badly for all concerned and given multiple chances for redemption, knowing that's what was being offered. The difference is that Londo finally took the last chance while Sadeas did not.
Fifth of Daybreak he/him Posted November 10, 2017 Posted November 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Weltall said: Sadeas never seems to have gotten a moment like that, or whenever a potential eureka moment came he completely ignored it. I think you nailed it right there. By the time we see Sadeas it's too late. He's far too committed to himself as the pinnacle of Alethi strength.
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