Ghostbloods as worldhoppers

[EC11]

So I've checked the search function and I can't quite find any threads asking the question I'm asking, so here goes. The Ghostbloods, whose goals are unknown, seem to have, by way of WoB and evidence on screen, a connection to the cosmere as a whole. We know for instance that at least two Ghostbloods are worldhoppers, and from some items in their hideout (a vial of sand I assume to be from Taldain, a silver knife I think could be from Threnody, among others) which could imply a casual understanding of worldhopping amongst their members. Their goals are vague, but I assume they are greater than Roshar as a whole.

Though with only two worldhoppers is it possible that their organization is also a worldhopping organization? Discuss

[Khyrindor]

Whether or not the group as a whole is a worldhopping organization is unknown. I find it somewhat likely that they are an interplanetary organization whose roots are in roshar.

[Sparkrunner]

Ninja'd by @River of Storms

Warning: Instable Theory

My guess is that yes, you are correct in saying that the organization is a worldhopping organization. People who are Mraize's and Iyali's superiors came to Roshar and established a "chapter" there, then they recruit ordinary people, with the leaders of these groups being from the original "founders" on that planet, who report back to a worldhopper, who could potentially report back to someone off planet. Repeat system on other planets.

[EC11]

51 minutes ago, Rider of Storms said:

Whether or not the group as a whole is a worldhopping organization is unknown. I find it somewhat likely that they are an interplanetary organization whose roots are in roshar.

I agree with that. That Iyatil originally came from off Roshar suggests to me that the organization has roots elsewhere, and the items that appear from offworld suggest that worldhopping is common enough that it can be displayed openly by Mraize. Personally I think we will know more once we are introduced to Thaidakar. If he is a worldhopper too that would make for a good case that they are merely filling out part of a larger plan on Roshar.

[Khyrindor]

To clarify, I meant that they were originally a Rosharan organization, but eventually became inter-planetary as worldhopping became more prevalent. Which is why we haven't seen them as obviously anywhere else, but may have seen their members or influence. Roshar may be their base of operations, or at least their area of priority. 

[Wreith]

Iyatil appears to have been born at Silverlight to parents from

Not sure necessary:

Spoiler

Scadrial

 

Quote

INTERVIEW: Apr 23rd, 2016

Brandon Sanderson RAFOlympics at JordanCon 8 (Verbatim)

QUESTION

Obviously the world covers different planets, but most people on individual planets don’t know about the other planets. Is there a planet within the Cosmere where worldhopping is common knowledge?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Is there a planet in the Cosmere where worldhopping is common knowledge. Um… it’s not a planet. Someone: It’s a space station? [Audience laughs] That’s no moon!

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

That’s… not as far off as people laughing think that it is. [More laughter] It’s not a space station, it’s not that futuristic, but there is a place in the Cosmere where a lot of worldhoppers have settled, is where Iyatil is from, even though her ethnicity is not from there.

QUESTION

Clarifying question. Is that place in the Physical Realm?

BRANDON SANDERSON

[laughs] RAFO!

QUESTION

It’s the Cognitive Restaurant At The End Of The Universe? [many references to Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy follow]

FOOTNOTE

This is presumably referring to Silverlight which was officially mentioned first in Arcanum Unbounded.

Mraize is Thaylen 

I do think that we need to know Thaidakar's status before we can say that the whole organization is cosmere wide.

Thaidakar is known to several Roshar natives making me think he is either native or has been there a long time. Then of course there's the symbol of the Ghostbloods which seems to correlate to the three shards of Roshar.

 

Thaidakar aside, I get the impression that Mraize is worldhopping on his own time

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1097#20

Quote

QUESTION (PARAPHRASED)

Is Mraize a worldhopper?

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

Yes, he's been to a few planets, highly supervised by his babsk.

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Wreith
put potential spoilery thing in tags

[QuantumHarmonix]

I hadn’t considered that the three diamonds represented the three shards in the Roshar system. When I realized that the organization was very cosmere aware I thought they they might represent the three realms, Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual. Might be both I guess.

[Wreith]

3 minutes ago, QuantumHarmonix said:

I hadn’t considered that the three diamonds represented the three shards in the Roshar system. When I realized that the organization was very cosmere aware I thought they they might represent the three realms, Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual. Might be both I guess.

yeah, that is true. I find the shard theory to be more likely, though, because I don't think based on our current information that the ghostbloods as a whole are as cosmere aware as some of the individual members are.

There are in-world references that tell us that folks are/were aware that there were three "gods". The most prominent of which is Dalinar's vision where he was Heb. Heb's wife uses "Three gods" as an exclamation.

 

My theory loses a significant amount of credibility if Mraize turns out to be Thaidakar. A possibility created by the idea that Mraize is just a title. I'm not sure if that's been confirmed or not.

And yes, I know Mraize tells someone to send information to Thaidakar, but it's possible that someone like Mraize would hide his identity from his own organization. Just a wild theory that came to me while thinking about this thread.

[QuantumHarmonix]

The three gods angle does make more sense. It’s just when I saw the objects from other shardworlds, it implied worldhopping to me. And I just kind of assumed that worldhopping brings with it an understanding of realmatic theory. Of course it is also possible that they are more like the men in black and just collect and catalogue alien artifacts from world hoppers without knowing enough to travel themselves. 

[Toaster Retribution]

I assume that the core of the organization is Cosmere-aware and worldhopper-y. That said, people around it, or lower-ranking members, are probably not worldhoppers or Cosmere-aware. For example, Lin Davar probably wasn't, and my gut tells me Kabsal wasn't either.

[EC11]

18 hours ago, QuantumHarmonix said:

The three gods angle does make more sense. It’s just when I saw the objects from other shardworlds, it implied worldhopping to me. And I just kind of assumed that worldhopping brings with it an understanding of realmatic theory. Of course it is also possible that they are more like the men in black and just collect and catalogue alien artifacts from world hoppers without knowing enough to travel themselves. 

 

Hadn't even thought about that angle before, with the three diamonds. It's an interesting one. I think though, that it is more than possible that they are more than MiB as according to WoB Mraize has visited other planets and Iyatil was born in Silverlight and is descended from South Scadrians.

 

4 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I assume that the core of the organization is Cosmere-aware and worldhopper-y. That said, people around it, or lower-ranking members, are probably not worldhoppers or Cosmere-aware. For example, Lin Davar probably wasn't, and my gut tells me Kabsal wasn't either.

It's possible that the lower ranking members don't know, while the higher ups are all much more cosmere aware and have had their awareness spread out from there. That being said, with Iyatil's origins being extra-Rosharic, then perhaps the higher ups have been recruiting from off world as well like the 17th Shard has been?

[The One Who Connects]

On 10/19/2017 at 0:11 PM, EC11 said:

and the items that appear from off-world suggest that worldhopping is common enough that it can be displayed openly by Mraize.

Take care with what you assume. I see no reason why their extraterrestrial origins would prevent them from being displayed.

Take Shallan's account of the items. She expresses curiosity, and in some cases confusion, but not suspicion.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for Mraize to display trophies from other worlds because of the concept of significance. We as normal humans hold random items as dear to us(a lover's letter, an ancestor's jewelry, random nick-knacks, etc..), but unless you know why the item is significant, it means nothing. This applies to nearly all of Mraize's collector's edition items.

• The knife could easily be an family heirloom or a trophy of combat.
• The lock of hair could be what's left of a lost love, or a trophy of combat(like an animal pelt).
• The flower is rare(as nobody recognizes it) and will be assumed to have value in the difficulty of acquiring it(or it could be a lover's favorite, like the Marewill flowers were for Kelsier.)
• The "hairpins" are more likely to have an assumed sentimental value.
• The crystal will be more difficult to explain, but Roshar is a big place, full of strange items. (And for what it's worth, we don't actually know for sure what it is either)
• The tree branch is probably the hardest to explain, but a simple twig will also raise the least interest from those not in the know.

[EC11]

On 10/28/2017 at 7:03 PM, The One Who Connects said:

Take care with what you assume. I see no reason why their extraterrestrial origins would prevent them from being displayed.

Take Shallan's account of the items. She expresses curiosity, and in some cases confusion, but not suspicion.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for Mraize to display trophies from other worlds because of the concept of significance. We as normal humans hold random items as dear to us(a lover's letter, an ancestor's jewelry, random nick-knacks, etc..), but unless you know why the item is significant, it means nothing. This applies to nearly all of Mraize's collector's edition items.

• The knife could easily be an family heirloom or a trophy of combat.
• The lock of hair could be what's left of a lost love, or a trophy of combat(like an animal pelt).
• The flower is rare(as nobody recognizes it) and will be assumed to have value in the difficulty of acquiring it(or it could be a lover's favorite, like the Marewill flowers were for Kelsier.)
• The "hairpins" are more likely to have an assumed sentimental value.
• The crystal will be more difficult to explain, but Roshar is a big place, full of strange items. (And for what it's worth, we don't actually know for sure what it is either)
• The tree branch is probably the hardest to explain, but a simple twig will also raise the least interest from those not in the know.

 

I understand that they are sentimental (and largely assume them to be "hunt trophy's/souvenirs") but don't think that makes them suspicious.

My underlying assumption is that worldhopping is known amongst the Ghostbloods, which would allow things very distinctly not Rosharan, to be displayed amongst the inner group (who wouldn't be overly curious since they know about the off world escapades) and as examples of what can be achieved. Of course an outsider wouldn't recognize them, at least not one who is not very cosmere aware. I'm just using this as a hypothetical argument for the Ghostbloods being worldhoppers as a part of their organization.

It's possible I'm wrong, but since they seem to be able to recruit from off world, I have my suspicions.