Isaiah Zayth he/him Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) I just had this overwhelming feeling while reading Chapter 11 that Sadeas and Dalinar somehow switched personalities at some point before the events in tWoK, and that this switch was somehow linked to Dalinar approaching the Old Magic. Almost everything old Sadeas says and does reminds me of current Dalinar, while old Dalinar seems so similar to "new" Sadeas from tWoK and WoR. Is there any way some portion of their personalities were switched without their knowledge? “Calm, Dalinar,” Sadeas said from beside him in the mist. Sadeas wore his own golden Plate. “Patience.” - Oathbringer, CH 11, B. Sanderson, Tor.com “But think of the benefit, Dalinar,” Sadeas said. “Your wedding could bring us alliances, Shards. Perhaps you could win us a princedom—one we wouldn’t have to storming drive to the brink of collapse before they join us!” - Oathbringer, CH 11, B. Sanderson, Tor.comhi Sadeas would have never said something like that in tWoK or WoR. But those sound exactly like things current Dalinar would say to Adolin, Kaladin, or Elhokar. Is that result of Dalinar's grey-beard wisdom... or is it something more? It sounds so crazy... but I still can't get the thought out of my head. So please rip it to shreds so I can forget it! Edited September 19, 2017 by Isaiah Zayth Clarity, Quotes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Naa, fear not! Sadeas was the one who wanted to rape a random young woman in the first interlude, thats not something I see Dalinar doing now. So Sadeas was the same bastard right from the beginning. It's just that Dalinar fell from his good grace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah Zayth he/him Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Oh yeah... totally forgot about that. Good point. Regardless, Dalinar's interaction with the Old Magic changed him for the better, even if that change came at the cost of forgetting his (first) wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, Isaiah Zayth said: Oh yeah... totally forgot about that. Good point. Regardless, Dalinar's interaction with the Old Magic changed him for the better, even if that change came at the cost of forgetting his (first) wife. Actually, in a certain way he was quite likable right from the beginning. His men followed him and apparently worshipped him; he was generous. He only was totally focused on winning the game he was playing, which involved an improbable amount of killing ... :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyarmenatan Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 What is this 'shame' Dalinar feels after claiming his Blade? Is he ashamed of killing the heir of Tanatal even though Gavilar does not seem to put any blame on him for this, or is this something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackYeti he/him Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Hyarmenatan said: What is this 'shame' Dalinar feels after claiming his Blade? Is he ashamed of killing the heir of Tanatal even though Gavilar does not seem to put any blame on him for this, or is this something else? Yes, I would imagine it does have some something to do with his killing of a 6-year-old child. I imagine that most people would feel shame if they did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz he/him Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 I am convinced he did not kill the child, but let it and its mother go with an order to keep silent. Somebody already pointed out, that on the one hand Dalinar said: Quote they won’t like that you killed their highlord and his heir and AFTERWARDS Dalinar thinks: Quote Dalinar closed his eyes, distracted by the shame he felt. What if Gavilar found out? What could this be, that he is afraid of Gavilar finding out, if not that he let the child go? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarion Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael Portz said: I am convinced he did not kill the child, but let it and its mother go with an order to keep silent. Somebody already pointed out, that on the one hand Dalinar said: and AFTERWARDS Dalinar thinks: What could this be, that he is afraid of Gavilar finding out, if not that he let the child go? Yeah, I'm leaning towards the shame being that he didn't have it in him to kill a child. Not doing so was the poor tactical choice, and posed more of a risk to Gavilar's throne. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkara Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 26 minutes ago, Tarion said: Yeah, I'm leaning towards the shame being that he didn't have it in him to kill a child. Not doing so was the poor tactical choice, and posed more of a risk to Gavilar's throne. Or, some years later, Dalinar's wife. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondMind he/him Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Michael Portz said: I am convinced he did not kill the child, but let it and its mother go with an order to keep silent. Somebody already pointed out, that on the one hand Dalinar said: Quote they won’t like that you killed their highlord and his heir and AFTERWARDS Dalinar thinks: Quote Dalinar closed his eyes, distracted by the shame he felt. What if Gavilar found out? What could this be, that he is afraid of Gavilar finding out, if not that he let the child go? First, Dalinar thinks about the shame before Gavilar talks about the murder: Quote “Sadeas is smart,” Dalinar said. He reached gingerly with his right hand, the less mangled one, and raised a mug of wine to his lips. It was the only drug he cared about for the pain—and maybe it would help with the shame too. Both feelings seemed stark, now that the Thrill had receded and left him deflated. So I don't think Gavilar bringing it up accounts for anything. I'm much more leaning towards that he's worried about Gavilar finding out about the shame itself, as opposed to anything Dalinar did. Dalinar is supposed to be the Blackthorn, and I don't think that he would want Gavilar to think that he's "weak." Edited September 19, 2017 by DiamondMind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatboi.kel Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 On 9/19/2017 at 1:01 PM, Hyarmenatan said: What is this 'shame' Dalinar feels after claiming his Blade? Is he ashamed of killing the heir of Tanatal even though Gavilar does not seem to put any blame on him for this, or is this something else? Why would he be ashamed of killing a child who was wielding (probably poorly but still) a shardblade and pointing it at him? We learn earlier in the chapter that Dalinar's plate is pretty wrecked between the multiple falls and then the fight with Thanalan, he's also lost at least two pieces of plate altogether. With the Thrill pushing him, plus basic sense of self-preservation, of course he'd attack/kill a shard wielder. All that aside, he was also a vastly capable warrior facing down a 6-yo so yes, its quite possible he was able to disarm the boy and let he and his mother live if they went into hiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkara Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 hours ago, thatboi.kel said: Why would he be ashamed of killing a child who was wielding (probably poorly but still) a shardblade and pointing it at him? Why does he feel ashamed? Because he's a main character in Sanderson series. Most of Sanderson's readers don't analyze each word like Sharers do and, more importantly, aren't desensitized to child murder. Please name a Sanderson protagonist who has been okay with killing children. Even sociopathic Kelsier was opposed to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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