Kingkiller vs ASOIAF

[Zmaray he/him]

I'm not sure how to rank each of these series as I like them for different reasons. I think Martin's world is both epic and rich, however, I find the writing mediocre and after Ned's death, I didn't really care about any of the characters. Kingkiller on the other hand has beautiful prose but has a rather mundane plot and world in comparison. 

What are your thoughts? I'm open to arguments that may tip the scales in favour of either series.

[Mason Wheeler]

Story-wise, there's just no comparison.  I've tried several times to read A Game of Thrones and just never been able to get into it, whereas The Name of the Wind sucks you in right away with its beautifully sad description of the inn and its three-part silence, the innkeeper hiding a secret identity, and the traveling scholar's downright amicable waylaying by a group of highwaymen.  And we've just barely had time to establish the framing story when Chronicler arrives at Kote's inn and they get down to business of telling the nested story, with tantalizing hints that Kvothe's own actions are largely responsible for the mess that the framing-story world finds itself in.

Even without having read it, I know from simple cultural osmosis that the world of ASOIAF is bleak and ugly, with the author killing off any character who has enough redeeming qualities for the audience to end up caring about them.  What this ends up leading to is a situation where you have no one to root for or care about, what TVTropes calls "Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy."

A big part of what makes Kingkiller work, despite the essentially bleak premise, (the world's a big, screwed up mess and it's our hero's fault,) is the counterpoint from Bast:

Spoiler

He knows that Kvothe used to be a hero, and he's manipulating the whole situation with Chronicler from behind the scenes, trying to get things into a position where Kvothe can be heroic again.

It remains to be seen whether or not the third book will make good on this potential.  Personally, I really hope it does.  There's already enough dark and ugly out there, and it's getting boring.  We want to see something good and meaningful happen!

I'm reminded of the author of the Paul Twister stories and his review of the (also needlessly-dark) Dawn of Justice:

Quote

“Dark” can be done well, when it gives the light something to really shine in.  It’s one of the reasons I like The Flash.  Without giving any spoilers, when Barry and the team finally find out what’s really been going on that was driving the plot of the first season, it could easily have crushed any of them, particularly Barry and Cisco, but they chose to be better than that and overcome it, and it helped make the show awesome.

It’s one of the reasons I like the work of Brandon Sanderson.  The goal of the villain of Elantris is to literally commit genocide.  The villain from Warbreaker is trying to incite a world war.  Ruin, from Mistborn, is an evil god who’s trying to destroy the world because he is literally a divine personification of the concept of ruin, and Odium is even worse, if you can believe it.  But you never come out of his books feeling like you’ve been reading a dark and depressing story, because all the adversity they face gives them a chance to grow stronger, to become better.  Watching the protagonists triumph at the end makes it all worth it, particularly Kaladin, who had to wade through a tremendous amount of brutally soul-crushing crap in The Way of Kings, which just makes his scene at the Tower that much sweeter.

But a movie like this, it starts bleak and remains bleak throughout.  Batman is a vicious thug, Superman is too depressed to do much superhero-ing (aside from repeatedly saving Lois, of course,) and Wonder Woman is not even around until the final battle, except as an enigmatic woman with no name until someone finally calls her “Ms. Prince” more than 2 hours in.  (I don’t think the name “Diana” was ever used anywhere.)  I think the difference is that in a story like this, the darkness grinds the characters down instead of giving them something to stand up to and overcome.

And that’s really not a story I’m interested in.  I wish I could be, but no.

I agree completely, and I really hope, when the third Kingkiller book comes out, that Pat Rothfuss gets it right.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I have only read the first Kingkiller, and I found it an enjoyable read, with truly awesome prose, and some interesting plot points. But for me ASoIaF takes it. 

First off, I love huge scoped epics, and so ASoIaF is definitely for me. Second, I love the complex plot, and the phenomenal world Martin has created. 

But one of the major things for me are the characters. I didn't find Kvothe to be that great, tbh. Not Denna either, or any of Kvothes friends. Devi, Elodin and Bast were the ones I cared about the most, and I still didn't think of them much when I was done reading.

I feel like the people of ASoIaF are more complex, more interesting, cooler, and more likeable. Stannis Baratheon is one of the most brilliant characters I have ever read. Jaime Lannister is wonderfully complex. Robb Stark is a great twist on classic fantasy tropes. And that is just three people. There are a lot of others, including minor characters so minor that they were cut from the show, who I love. U

3 hours ago, Mason Wheeler said:

Even without having read it, I know from simple cultural osmosis that the world of ASOIAF is bleak and ugly, with the author killing off any character who has enough redeeming qualities for the audience to end up caring about them.  What this ends up leading to is a situation where you have no one to root for or care about, what TVTropes calls "Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy."

I heavily disagree with this. Yes, ASoIaF is dark and grim, much more so than Sanderson or Kingkiller. But it isn't depressing either. There are beautiful moments in Martins series. There are genuinely good people. There are redemption arcs. It shows that bad can become better, that redemption is possible. 

Everyone loves to say that all the good guys die, and all the baddies live, and that no one is a good guy. None of it is really true. There are good guys who are still alive. Those who have died this far are mostly those who in a classic fantasy story would have been the good guys, the heroes, the knights in shining armor. And not even all of those are dead. 

The "no one is a good guy" part basically means that: 

1. No one is all-good in this story. Everyone has faults.

2. There are so many different sides to cheer for that no one will feel like the ultimate protagonist, the good guy that you follow in other stories. 

Yes, ASoIaF is dark and grim. But there is light in it too, and Darkness-Induced Audiece Apathy is (in my humble opinion) not at all fitting with it.

[Who Sharded?]

For me there's almost not a single area where I'd rank Kingkiller over ASoIaF.  Some passages in Kingkiller are better written than ASoIaF, but that's about the only praise I can give it.

[Kalleth he/him]

Rothfuss' world is by no means mundane. Just because there are no ice zombies or fire zombies or dragons doesn't automatically mean that Temerant is boring. In fact, a lot of the secrets and things left unsaid seem to hint at massive amounts of unseen or forgotten lore. I could harp on about this point but suffice it to say that where George would have you revel in long-winded descriptions of food, gape at arguably fantastic setpieces, and grapple with existential dread any time a character that is sympathetic approaches semi-dangerous circumstances...

Pat will have you smiling and cringing and seething at the relationships between characters, scratching your head at whether a story is just a story, or actually a hidden allegory for an ongoing plot thread, question the moral fibre of those who seem the most inscrutable, and ultimately... Cheering for a character who could quite possibly end up being the world's final antagonist.

Ugh, I mean there are an immeasurable amount of arguments you can make for either series. I think that KKC has a lot more nuanced, personal, and complex writing. I think part of that comes from the endless revisions that Pat does (and is doing) to try and eke out a real gem of a tale. I don't get the same sense of tireless self-innovation from ASOIAF. I mean, sure you can find some clever plotting, with a tad more action and real movement of narrative, but how much of it is earned? The best comparison I can think of is that in the high fantasy category, ASOIAF is pulpy, turn-your-brain-off, enjoy the ride fantasy fiction. Honestly, I do not even give a crap if Jon Snow dies, and it's mostly because there's a lot of chain-yanking in that series. And then there's KKC, which is probably something a reader needs to be a bit more engaged with, and could take a few re-reads to really sink into. But boy is it worth it if you do. I cannot begin to describe how finely wrought Pat's prose is except to add my voice to that of my peers above in saying that when you read the opening prologue in the Waystone, you know exactly what kind of prose you're in for. And it's as though the book has two beginnings, because Kvothe's narrative voice is quite distinctive also.

 

Gah. Read em' both. If you couldn't already tell, I've gotten more out of KKC, and while I'm pissed at Martin's excuses, I've got tons of patience for Rothfuss. Shrug.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

@Kalleth

This is very much about personal opinions and what you are looking for in a book. I don´t read for prose. Rothfuss impressed me in that area, but that is not what I look for when I read fantasy. I mostly look for something extremely epic, with a huge amount of characters and plotlines. This really isn´t what Kingkiller is. That isn´t what Kingkiller should be either. But that is what ASoIaF is, and that is the primary reason for why it appeals to me (and others).

Also, the ice zombies are hardly the most impressing thing about Martins worldbuilding. It is the different nations and cultures, the noble houses, the history of the world. The place feels real. And I agree with you, those dragons are terribly overrated. Also, feeling dread when you read ASoIaF adds to the excitement, at least for me. 

Furthermore, I disagree with ASoIaF being turn-your-brain-off fantasy. There is a lot of depth and complexity to be found in those books. Such as the fact that it often feels like Martin is taking and twisting old fairy-tales. For example, Beric Dondarrion, who punishes criminals of war and gives money to poor refugees sounds like Robin Hood. But add in the fact that Beric consistently dies and is brought back to life, each time keeping old wounds and losing old memories. That is when it starts feeling dark and creepy. You can still sense the fairy tale roots in there, but it is a lot darker. Martin generally subverts tropes, and plays around with old medeival stories, which I enjoy.

I also find his characters richer, and more interesting. Stannis, Sandor, Theon, Robert, Tyrion, Jaime, Tywin... there are more. In KKC, I didn´t really get invested in any of the characters to the point that I could keep on thinking about them for days, weeks. I get that with ASoIaF. 

From my point of view, ASoiaF is a better story, but again, I think it boils down to why and how you read fantasy. There isn´t really an objective truth here, and I definitely agree with your last statement: both are worth a read. 

[Erandeni he/him]

In my opinion Kingslayer has better prose, Asoiaf has better and richer character and more detalled world(I don't find kingslayer world to be interesting aside the Adem and the university). I like kingslayer magic system more, and about plot is hard to decide, I like both, but defend a world from a horde of ice creatures while all the monarchs are trying to kill each other win to a story of  a kid trying to learn magic and knowledge in order to avenge his family.

[WayneSpren he/him]

I've read both and think that Asoiaf has far better characters; the entire cast is much more dynamic and interesting than the figures from Kingslayer. Kingslayer is a beautifully interesting story both in its magic and its worldbuilding, but I find the variable characters and intrigues of Asoiaf to surpass it as a series.