Passion he/him Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Hi I'm still hereld obsessed and here's what I have been pondering recently 1)what did the herelds expect when they broke the oathpact. Did they expect to still be alive by the next desalation if yes then did they have any sort of plan for handling it? 2) if yes what did they think taln would say to them when he found them by the next desolation(I can't wait for that scene in the next book) 3)did they think this breaking of the oathpact was reversible?i was pondering this specifically when I reread the prolouge to work where Janna hears the 2 embasadors talking about taking back his sword. Since everyone seems to think they are herelds that sounds like they think the breaking if the oathpact can be fixed. Do you agree with this? And if yes do you think they always knew this from the beginning(That they can always fix their betrayal if they change their mind) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemetha he/him Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Passion said: 1)what did the herelds expect when they broke the oathpact. Did they expect to still be alive by the next desalation if yes then did they have any sort of plan for handling it? Relief. What the heralds endured is quite analogous to the christian belief in hell. They fought and were tortured and fought and were tortured eternally. I don't think at that point they cared if they were alive at the next desolation, they just wanted it to be over. 24 minutes ago, Passion said: 2) if yes what did they think taln would say to them when he found them by the next desolation(I can't wait for that scene in the next book) I've always had the impression they felt resigned to him continuing the oathpact regardless of their decision from the way he is described. I imagine they were glad they didn't have to face him and hoped they wouldn't have to. 24 minutes ago, Passion said: 3)did they think this breaking of the oathpact was reversible?i was pondering this specifically when I reread the prolouge to work where Janna hears the 2 embasadors talking about taking back his sword. Since everyone seems to think they are herelds that sounds like they think the breaking if the oathpact can be fixed. Do you agree with this? And if yes do you think they always knew this from the beginning(That they can always fix their betrayal if they change their mind) I don't know if they did or didn't at the time. I think it has become obvious to them now that their attempt to break the oathpact did not work, so it's not really something we can draw conclusions about comparing the time they made the decision to what is apparent now. WoB on the status of the oathpact: Spoiler http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1080#15 Quote QUESTION () How many parties were there to the original Oathpact? BRANDON SANDERSON The Heralds and Honor. They thought that by walking away from their oaths, that it would break the Oathpact. They're going to find out that it's not quite as broken as they had previously thought (meaning the Heralds). Edited August 11, 2017 by aemetha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyht Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Most of this is yet to be learned. We are not quite sure how the oathpact worked, and why. Or really even what it was. But here is what I gather from the prelude in WoK: They heralds were not sure what to expect when they walked away from their oaths, but they had decided they could not handle another session being tortured at Damnation. They hoped Talenel still connected to the oathpact would be enough to keep Odium bound by it. They hoped that by not returning, the cycles of desolations would actually end. I dont know if they want to reverse what they have done, or if they think they can. Some other stuff that I think applies: They were not the only ones to walk away. The Knights Radiant broke their oaths, and the Parshendi gave up all their songs and forms. Nale specifically is working to keep the Desolation at bay, through making sure the Knights Radiant do not reform, by finding and killing people with the Nahel Bond. Some how, something in all this is working, as they have had a period of 4500 years with no Desolation. The "Final Desolation" is not like the others, almost like it got started in a different way I dont know how much of that applies to what you are thinking. No doubt the oathpact is a complex concept for which we do not have all the facts yet. It will be fun to learn more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Passion said: 1)what did the herelds expect when they broke the oathpact. Did they expect to still be alive by the next desalation if yes then did they have any sort of plan for handling it? They wanted put. They were mentally broken. I don't think that they expected immortality. I don't think they even wanted it. But, at least subconsciously, I think they realize that they're still bound by the Oathpact and that death means a return to Braize. So they carry on, some trying to atone in misguided ways like Nale, others trying to deny the past like Jezrien in his drunken stupor (assuming that theory is correct) or Ashley destroying the monuments to her. 51 minutes ago, Passion said: 2) if yes what did they think taln would say to them when he found them by the next desolation(I can't wait for that scene in the next book) I don't think any of them expected it. I bet a few of them are dreading it and others try not to think about it. 51 minutes ago, Passion said: 3)did they think this breaking of the oathpact was reversible?i was pondering this specifically when I reread the prolouge to work where Janna hears the 2 embasadors talking about taking back his sword. Since everyone seems to think they are herelds that sounds like they think the breaking if the oathpact can be fixed. Do you agree with this? And if yes do you think they always knew this from the beginning(That they can always fix their betrayal if they change their mind) I don't think that's what that was about at all. I think that Kalak (as most evidence points to the sniveling one being him) just thinks the blades should be unused. So Szeth having one was something he objected too. Edit: @lyht I disagree with this point. Quote Some how, something in all this is working, as they have had a period of 4500 years with no Desolation. The Aimians at least believe differently. The back cover of tWoK implies that the length between these desolations is intentional. I agree. Humanity has lost almost all knowledge of the desolations. Rayse is said to be cunning. When the Heralds didn't return as normal, I think he seized the opportunity to lull humanity into complacency. Edited August 11, 2017 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyht Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 15 minutes ago, Calderis said: @lyht I disagree with this point. Maybe I should rephrase: "something in all this SEEMS to be working", and maybe even add "temporarily...". I agree that the real reason for the long break is unknown. The Diagram stated Quote Obviously they are fools The Desolation needs no usher It can and will sit where it wishes and the signs are obvious that the spren anticipate it doing so soon The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia Which says to me that Nale's efforts are a waste of time. But it is also possible that Talenel held strong and kept it at bay. Maybe. The Diagram can be wrong. Hm... more to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian he/him Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Coupla things. To further @Calderis point about the delay being deliberate, Honor himself says that. Quote “You cannot squabble as in times past. He’s realized that you, given time, will become your own enemies. That he doesn’t need to fight you. Not if he can make you forget, make you turn against one another. Your legends say that you won. But the truth is that we lost. And we are losing.” And in terms of the Oathpact, I'll just point out this. Quote INTERVIEW: Oct 1st, 2013 Steelheart Signing Report - Argent (Paraphrased) QUESTION None of the Heralds mention or address the Almighty in the opening scene of The Way of Kings; it's a little strange, considering they are his champions. Have they seen or spoken to the Almighty? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes, the Heralds have spoken with the Almighty. They also feel that what has been done to them is partially his fault Also if you want to browse through some WoBs on the Oathpact @Passion I've complied a bunch here. There's more relevant to this I just don't have time to go through them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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