ardents spren discovery

[StormblessDave]

In that interlude where those two ardents are alone on the island(Geranid and Ashir), she makes a discovery that measuring spren somehow traps it in that defined form, Ashir hinted it might have significance to fabrials too, are there any theories to this discovery? 

Wild speculation about to begin, but could this be the explanation for how the recreance occurred? Could they have learned how remove the defined form somehow, leading to the spren becoming undefined, thus a genocide. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by StormblessDave

[CJ Feboris]

I think you are onto something big here. I think it has something to do with why there are no spren in Shinovar as well. Possibly it is linked to the Bondsmith stuff we get to read soon. If they are held in their forms, they become static. Rushu mentions it in WoR when they are testing conjoined fabrials after Szeth tries to kill Dalinar the first time. 

[If.you.die.I.go.stupid]

Do you mean that making spren undefined might be the method for breaking the bond? I assume the spren would need a new bond to be returned. I know Brandon said bringing back a dead spren would be difficult. I thought this was because it would be hard to form a bond with a broken spren.  The sprens mind is broken so what is there to bond to? Though Brandon said difficult not impossible. Studying how humans observing or interacting with spren changes them, yeah that seems like that kind of thing that could lead to reviving a spren, but I think it would be some combination of what they learn and a way to replace the bond.

[Krandacth]

I always thought it was the opposite: accurately and statically defining some characteristic of a Spren locks that characteristic; Dead Spren are locked in all ways; Therefore, Dead Spren are Spren whose characteristics have all been statically defined.

Now, how can these Spren, who are some of the most complex of Spren, have been captured in all of their complexity? I think that depends on what it takes to define them. I would argue that they are cognitive manifestations of the physical behaviours that they are attracted to: a windspren IS a specific gust of wind, whilst that gust exists in the physical realm, and that gust wholly defines that Spren while it blows; The Spren exists both before and after the gust, but not in the physical realm. Combine this with the in-world description that Radiantspren are the cognitive manifestations of the Radiant's oaths (which seems near enough to the truth), then they will exist both before and after the oaths, but only manifest in the physical realm while those oaths exist, and are defined in all ways by those oaths.

So, how does this come back to dead Spren being statically defined, I hear you ask? Well, we have also heard from Hesina that Spren are drawn to change, or at least dynamic examples of what they are named for: Windspren are drawn to wind that is blowing, flamespren are drawn to flames that are burning, honourspren are drawn to a person acting with honour*. If flame burns out then it has continued to its natural, dynamic conclusion and ceased to be, releasing the Spren. If a person dies while not contravening their honour, then their honour comes to its natural, dynamic conclusion and ceases to be, releasing the Spren. If that person breaks their oaths, then their honour and oaths STILL EXIST without having reached a natural conclusion, but are no longer being acted upon, and so remain STATIC.

What would happen to a flamespren if the fire it had been drawn to was somehow frozen - not put out, but somehow made to stop burning whilst still existing, unable to go out? Or a windspren if its breeze were stopped without dissipating?

 

*Supposedly... I'm not sure Honourspren is an accurate description of what Syl is.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Krandacth

[Velvet Thunder he/him]

2 hours ago, Krandacth said:

I always thought it was the opposite: accurately and statically defining some characteristic of a Spren locks that characteristic; Dead Spren are locked in all ways; Therefore, Dead Spren are Spren whose characteristics have all been statically defined.

Now, how can these Spren, who are some of the most complex of Spren, have been captured in all of their complexity? I think that depends on what it takes to define them. I would argue that they are cognitive manifestations of the physical behaviours that they are attracted to: a windspren IS a specific gust of wind, whilst that gust exists in the physical realm, and that gust wholly defines that Spren while it blows; The Spren exists both before and after the gust, but not in the physical realm. Combine this with the in-world description that Radiantspren are the cognitive manifestations of the Radiant's oaths (which seems near enough to the truth), then they will exist both before and after the oaths, but only manifest in the physical realm while those oaths exist, and are defined in all ways by those oaths.

So, how does this come back to dead Spren being statically defined, I hear you ask? Well, we have also heard from Hesina that Spren are drawn to change, or at least dynamic examples of what they are named for: Windspren are drawn to wind that is blowing, flamespren are drawn to flames that are burning, honourspren are drawn to a person acting with honour*. If flame burns out then it has continued to its natural, dynamic conclusion and ceased to be, releasing the Spren. If a person dies while not contravening their honour, then their honour comes to its natural, dynamic conclusion and ceases to be, releasing the Spren. If that person breaks their oaths, then their honour and oaths STILL EXIST without having reached a natural conclusion, but are no longer being acted upon, and so remain STATIC.

What would happen to a flamespren if the fire it had been drawn to was somehow frozen - not put out, but somehow made to stop burning whilst still existing, unable to go out? Or a windspren if its breeze were stopped without dissipating?

 

*Supposedly... I'm not sure Honourspren is an accurate description of what Syl is.

Compelling. Love it.

[StormblessDave]

It looks scarily simple, just by measuring out a plausible size, the spren gets trapped into that size.

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by StormblessDave
realized i wrotecontradicting nonsense lol

[Agent34]

2 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

It looks scarily simple, just by measuring out a plausible size, the spren gets trapped into that size.

The creepy thing is that it seems to be permanent, that seems to rule out the getting them back theory.  

Once the measurement gets erased the spren returns to variable sizes.

[Erandeni he/him]

26 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

It looks scarily simple, just by measuring out a plausible size, the spren gets trapped into that size.

I think it is because of the cognitive nature of the spren, their forms depends on how humans see them.

[Krandacth]

2 hours ago, StormblessDave said:

The creepy thing is that it seems to be permanent, that seems to rule out the getting them back theory.  

Unless someone else somehow mimics the exact state of the Lost Radiant's oaths, duplicating the Spren's "definition", and then continues to live by those oaths. That would be like unfreezing the fire for a locked flamespren, right? That's my theory (expressed in different words in the link).

 

[Calderis he/him]

4 minutes ago, Krandacth said:

Unless someone else somehow mimics the exact state of the Lost Radiant's oaths, duplicating the Spren's "definition", and then continues to live by those oaths. That would be like unfreezing the fire for a locked flamespren, right? That's my theory (expressed in different words in the link).

 

Yep. That's why the Adolin theory exists. He fits as an Edgedancer, and he has an Edgedancer blade. He treats his Blade with respect. 

If there were a way to mass rez all of the dead spren, I don't think Brandon would have said it's so insanely difficult to revive an individual spren. 

[maxal she/her]

5 hours ago, Calderis said:

Yep. That's why the Adolin theory exists. He fits as an Edgedancer, and he has an Edgedancer blade. He treats his Blade with respect. 

If there were a way to mass rez all of the dead spren, I don't think Brandon would have said it's so insanely difficult to revive an individual spren. 

Edgedancers sprens are Cultivationsprens which are akin to growing plants. I would assume they are attracted to growth, to plants, to life. Is that the secret Adolin needs to revive his Blade? To create an environment where growth will happen?

What if regrowth being done on him while having his Blade within the physical form enough to create "conditions" akin to winds blowing for a honorspren?

[aemetha he/him]

I think if his blade is restored it has to do with adolin talking to his sword like he does before his duels. Spren are cognitions made sentient. He thinks of and treats his sword like it lives, so it lives again and a new bond is formed.

[Frostlander]

 

 

7 hours ago, maxal said:

Edgedancers sprens are Cultivationsprens which are akin to growing plants. I would assume they are attracted to growth, to plants, to life. Is that the secret Adolin needs to revive his Blade? To create an environment where growth will happen?

What if regrowth being done on him while having his Blade within the physical form enough to create "conditions" akin to winds blowing for a honorspren?

2

Quote

I will remember those who have been forgotten. I will listen to those who have been ignored.

 

If Adolin is already living the first two ideals of the Edgedancers, and he seems to be, perhaps he needs to reach the oath level that the spren in his blade had been at before the oaths were broken. We've already learned the first two from Lift, which makes it easier to move Adolin's story along, if that's the direction it's going--and I hope that it is.

That oath parity would place Adolin and the spren cognitively in sync. Because heart beats are involved in temporarily reviving blades, that might be where the healing or regrowth comes in. If Adolin and the spren are both cognitively and physically in sync somehow, it might work.

[Calderis he/him]

@Frostlander if he's living up to the ideals, maybe if he's healed while in the process of summoning, the "revival" that normally happens will get a boost? 

[Frostlander]

@Calderis  Deep realmatic theory is not my specialty, but I'll give this a go and see what others have to say. It almost seems as though the cognitive piece may have the most specific or firm requirements. The cognitive "syncing" provided by being in the same oath phase would take unusual circumstances, especially without anyone to train him, but it seems that Adolin is getting closer. Combined with what @aemetha  reminded us about Adolin's belief that there was something to talk to in the sword, the cognitive conditions are pretty good.

In terms of the physical aspect, I'm sure the resuscitation via heart beat that has been mentioned will come up if Adolin revives his blade. The heartbeat-as-spren-revival is too interesting not to explore in this way. It's not clear whether the point will be to demonstrate a requirement for physical syncing or, as we saw with Shallan and Pattern, the fact that in some cases, the heartbeats are a cognitive/perception matter. There are a lot of narrative possibilities for the physical part, ranging from Adolin reaching the necessary oath and just summoning his blade, to a dramatic moment of physical danger requiring (Renarin's?) healing to jolt them in sync or back alive. I can't quite speculate on what specifically would happen. Just as long as it doesn't require both Adolin and the spren to yell, "You're killing me!" at the same time...

The spiritual piece is interesting, too, as Adolin doesn't seem to be broken in the same way as the others, but he might be an interesting example of the interaction between Vorin gender roles and KR reality. He is the perfect Alethi male in some ways, but he has "female" Edgedancer qualities. Perhaps an early breaking involved the death of his mother. Even though that would bump the mother-angst up to near-Disney levels in this series, he does certainly remember her and someone else has certainly forgotten her. From a more practical perspective, it would be a bit silly to have Adolin revive a spren, only to have that spren go off looking for someone more broken.

The work he does with sword commands could fit cognitive or spiritual requirements.

Quote

He learned to command it to remain in place after being dropped, and learned to summon it back from the hands of those who might have picked it up. He learned that man and sword were, in some ways, one. The weapon became a piece of your soul.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 407). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

1

If Dalinar's book deals with his wife and with the Adolin-Sadeas issue, there may be room for Adolin to get at least closer to reviving a spren. Plus, he might be thinking more about this kind of thing with all of the other KR's running around now. And it would be very interesting to see Adolin healing people with Kaladin as a surgeon. @maxal might have some thoughts here, too.

[maxal she/her]

9 hours ago, aemetha said:

I think if his blade is restored it has to do with adolin talking to his sword like he does before his duels. Spren are cognitions made sentient. He thinks of and treats his sword like it lives, so it lives again and a new bond is formed.

Brandon said this wouldn't be enough. "Something more" would need to happen. Based on the discussion within this thread, I wondered if the "something more" might not be create conditions within the physical realms which would attract the spren more closely. Brandon did say the dead-sprens have retained some level of consciousness. It is stated in text if you remain bonded to a Blade for a long time period, it changed slightly its physical appearance to better match its wielder. Thus, even if Adolin says all the right oaths while meaning them, if the spren can't hear him or if the spren's level of consciousness is not high enough to understand and/or accept them, then it is all for nothing.

So what would increase a dead-spren's awareness within the physical realm? What would cause a dead-spren to be capable of bonding another knight despite being trapped in between realms? My thoughts were thus there may be "circumstances" which increases a given spren's awareness of the physical realm, such as perhaps strong wind would help a trapped Windrunner Blade. Therefore, "strong growing" might help a trapped Edgedancer's spren. "Strong growing" is pretty abstract which made me think the "strongest growing" we ever saw was when regrowth was use on an injured individual.

9 hours ago, Frostlander said:

If Adolin is already living the first two ideals of the Edgedancers, and he seems to be, perhaps he needs to reach the oath level that the spren in his blade had been at before the oaths were broken. We've already learned the first two from Lift, which makes it easier to move Adolin's story along, if that's the direction it's going--and I hope that it is.

That oath parity would place Adolin and the spren cognitively in sync. Because heart beats are involved in temporarily reviving blades, that might be where the healing or regrowth comes in. If Adolin and the spren are both cognitively and physically in sync somehow, it might work.

If Brandon indeed intends to have Adolin revive his Blade, then it gives the Edgedancer novel an new purpose: he couldn't have Lift's second oath happened behind close doors, nor could he just retell us throughout her flashback book. We had to know if we are to catch the growth in Adolin. 

Realistically, since the Blade is trapped within Blade form, I would think Adolin needs to say enough oaths to unlock this form. In the case of Edgedancers, we know he would need to say the "I will remember" oath and the "I will listen" oath. Oddly enough, I think it is the very first oath Adolin will struggle the most with. Learning he ought not to sacrifice his life for others, especially his father, will be a harsh lesson: he just doesn't currently value his own life enough to be a Radiant.

Yeah, I've been thinking perhaps Adolin needs to actually die to revive his Blade...  Die so he could enter the cognitive realm, but then be revived which would create "strong growth" which would raise the awareness of the spren high enough to perhaps latch onto him. It would explain why it is practically impossible... You need to be the perfect match, you need to be someone the dead-spren would choose, you need to say the right oaths while meaning them without spren guidance which all known Radiants have needed to progressed and... you need to die and be revived.

Then, let's assume I am right, Adolin would also have the problem of having been chosen without his spren having gone to the Circle which may cause problems....

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Frostlander if he's living up to the ideals, maybe if he's healed while in the process of summoning, the "revival" that normally happens will get a boost? 

I was thinking him dying so he could enter the cognitive realm. By dying, his Blade would materialized itself into his hands.

29 minutes ago, Frostlander said:

@Calderis  Deep realmatic theory is not my specialty, but I'll give this a go and see what others have to say. It almost seems as though the cognitive piece may have the most specific or firm requirements. The cognitive "syncing" provided by being in the same oath phase would take unusual circumstances, especially without anyone to train him, but it seems that Adolin is getting closer. Combined with what @aemetha  reminded us about Adolin's belief that there was something to talk to in the sword, the cognitive conditions are pretty good.

In terms of the physical aspect, I'm sure the resuscitation via heart beat that has been mentioned will come up if Adolin revives his blade. The heartbeat-as-spren-revival is too interesting not to explore in this way. It's not clear whether the point will be to demonstrate a requirement for physical syncing or, as we saw with Shallan and Pattern, the fact that in some cases, the heartbeats are a cognitive/perception matter. There are a lot of narrative possibilities for the physical part, ranging from Adolin reaching the necessary oath and just summoning his blade, to a dramatic moment of physical danger requiring (Renarin's?) healing to jolt them in sync or back alive. I can't quite speculate on what specifically would happen. Just as long as it doesn't require both Adolin and the spren to yell, "You're killing me!" at the same time...

The spiritual piece is interesting, too, as Adolin doesn't seem to be broken in the same way as the others, but he might be an interesting example of the interaction between Vorin gender roles and KR reality. He is the perfect Alethi male in some ways, but he has "female" Edgedancer qualities. Perhaps an early breaking involved the death of his mother. Even though that would bump the mother-angst up to near-Disney levels in this series, he does certainly remember her and someone else has certainly forgotten her. From a more practical perspective, it would be a bit silly to have Adolin revive a spren, only to have that spren go off looking for someone more broken.

The work he does with sword commands could fit cognitive or spiritual requirements.

If Dalinar's book deals with his wife and with the Adolin-Sadeas issue, there may be room for Adolin to get at least closer to reviving a spren. Plus, he might be thinking more about this kind of thing with all of the other KR's running around now. And it would be very interesting to see Adolin healing people with Kaladin as a surgeon. @maxal might have some thoughts here, too.

The heartbeat idea is interesting, while we may not have entirely worked the mechanics (it isn't my specialty either), it may be the first time I actually like an idea being suggested. Other suggestions involved either out-of-world magic (such as hemalurgy or forgery) or contrived actions done on purpose (such as Adolin touching his Blade at the same time as a Radiant as they all sit doing the ouija with it). Brandon did say he wanted this story arc to happen naturally which implies a slow progression.

My thoughts are thus the reviving process would go through several steps. Adolin will need to break down first. Mind, I do think he has broken down when he killed Sadeas, but I also think he isn't done breaking. He'll eventually hit rock bottom and once he hits it, he'll need to find his strength which is the love he bears towards other to climb back up. I honestly do not think losing his mother "broke" him. Sadden him, put seeds in him which will one day help him break, but not break him. Why? Well... Adolin's character has been orchestrated around his lack of reconnaissance, his inability to form relationships out of thinking he is not good enough and, as far as I can tell, it all started up with his parents preferring (or appearing to prefer, for children the distinction is non-existent) his younger brother to him. Mother dying might mean he didn't get closure with her, he didn't get what you are supposed to get with a parent and, since she died, he has no chance of it ever being right. It may be why he wants Navani close so much. I don't think this feels to Disney-y, but I agree if he has real angst over mother dying then yeah, maybe, but I don't think he does. Just a lack of closure which he could get if his father were to remember his wife and actually have a real heartfelt talk with his eldest son.

As for Adolin having "female" Edgedancer attributes despite being the "perfect Alethi male", I find it an interesting parallel to have with the idea his character is meant to subvert the Prince Charming and/or the Knight in Shining Armor tropes. Yes, he is the perfect soldier, talented tactician and war general, but just like Kaladin was a gifted surgeon, it may not be where his heart is. For about a year now, I have been thinking while Kaladin was the surgeon who dreamed of being a soldier, that Adolin might end up being the unwilling soldier who discovers his real passion when he gets the opportunity to... learn how to heal. In shorts, Kaladin has the heart of a soldier, but Adolin is the one having the heart of a surgeon and I would love to see the illiterate boy having little confidence in his abilities outside the fighting ground take a plunge and actually learn... surgery. What an out of the box progression this would make and it oddly fits so well with his character I really hope this is were Brandon will go.

I always thought Adolin would like Lirin... I could see them pester together over the idiocy and the uselessness of hunts and the waste of human life it causes... Or having Lirin pester against it only to see the lighteyed boy actually vehemently agree with him. Could be really interesting to read.

[Steeldancer he/him]

23 hours ago, maxal said:

Edgedancers sprens are Cultivationsprens which are akin to growing plants. I would assume they are attracted to growth, to plants, to life. Is that the secret Adolin needs to revive his Blade? To create an environment where growth will happen?

What if regrowth being done on him while having his Blade within the physical form enough to create "conditions" akin to winds blowing for a honorspren?

This basically made me think "adolins going to make a radiant training camp and that's going to allow him to bond his sword." 

What an interesting plot line that would be

[aemetha he/him]

5 hours ago, maxal said:

Brandon said this wouldn't be enough. "Something more" would need to happen.

Could the something more be intent? I haven't seen this exact WoB, but I know he has said or implied in a lot of his WoB's and in book references on Roshar and other worlds that it isn't just enough to say a thing, you have to think and believe it too. It's a little like the oaths themselves, the words are only a part of it, it's communicating an intent that makes it a radiant oath as far as the bond goes.

[Frostlander]

7 hours ago, aemetha said:

Could the something more be intent? I haven't seen this exact WoB, but I know he has said or implied in a lot of his WoB's and in book references on Roshar and other worlds that it isn't just enough to say a thing, you have to think and believe it too. It's a little like the oaths themselves, the words are only a part of it, it's communicating an intent that makes it a radiant oath as far as the bond goes.

That’s an interesting point, though the spren make such a big deal about how the KR have to say “the words.” Unless the spren are mistaken-- always a possibility, given their memory loss.

Thinking about Adolin and his blade, it seems like we need to also consider the gem placed in shardblades. Let’s say there has to be a cognitive syncing via oaths and some sort of heartbeat component to revive the spren. Where does the gem come in? We know that the gemstone in the pommel artificially forms a forced bond between the shardbearer and the spren that is locked in that form. (Perhaps by ornamenting or “personalizing” the first Bedazzled blade, the bearer formed the idea that it was “his” and the cognitive piece kicked in.) 

I suspect that the gem would have to come out of the pommel for the revival process to work. It would also be interesting to know the nature of the illness the bonder experiences for a few days when bonding a blade. At any rate, if the blade/dead-spren can’t be forcibly bonded to a random person unless a gem maintains the bond, it would make sense that Adolin’s blade would need to be unbonded and the spren free to choose to bond without the gem.

There's been a lot of groundwork-laying that seems like it should be paying off soon. And it's been sitting in front of us the whole time, so it would certainly happen naturally. Shallan, Dalinar, and/or Renarin may also have some new thoughts to share with Adolin soon regarding gem-bonded blades…

[Calderis he/him]

52 minutes ago, Frostlander said:

It would also be interesting to know the nature of the illness the bonder experiences for a few days when bonding a blade

I really like the content of your post, just a slight nitpick with this particular part. 

There is no illness. They just need to keep the blade in close proximity for the duration of the bond forming. The "illness" Dalinar suffered was a ruse to bond a Shardblade in secret 

[maxal she/her]

18 hours ago, Flash said:

This basically made me think "adolins going to make a radiant training camp and that's going to allow him to bond his sword." 

What an interesting plot line that would be

Why would Adolin make a Radiant training camp? He is unlikely to be involved into training the Radiants.

17 hours ago, aemetha said:

Could the something more be intent? I haven't seen this exact WoB, but I know he has said or implied in a lot of his WoB's and in book references on Roshar and other worlds that it isn't just enough to say a thing, you have to think and believe it too. It's a little like the oaths themselves, the words are only a part of it, it's communicating an intent that makes it a radiant oath as far as the bond goes.

Well, saying the words without meaning them as an oath to keep would certainly not work. Anyone can utter the first oath, but I doubt sprens would accept it if the speaker isn't believing nor understanding them. As I said, I suspect this is the one oath Adolin will struggle the most with. I don't expect him to get past it in Oathbringer, if he even goes there.

10 hours ago, Frostlander said:

That’s an interesting point, though the spren make such a big deal about how the KR have to say “the words.” Unless the spren are mistaken-- always a possibility, given their memory loss.

Thinking about Adolin and his blade, it seems like we need to also consider the gem placed in shardblades. Let’s say there has to be a cognitive syncing via oaths and some sort of heartbeat component to revive the spren. Where does the gem come in? We know that the gemstone in the pommel artificially forms a forced bond between the shardbearer and the spren that is locked in that form. (Perhaps by ornamenting or “personalizing” the first Bedazzled blade, the bearer formed the idea that it was “his” and the cognitive piece kicked in.) 

I suspect that the gem would have to come out of the pommel for the revival process to work. It would also be interesting to know the nature of the illness the bonder experiences for a few days when bonding a blade. At any rate, if the blade/dead-spren can’t be forcibly bonded to a random person unless a gem maintains the bond, it would make sense that Adolin’s blade would need to be unbonded and the spren free to choose to bond without the gem.

There's been a lot of groundwork-laying that seems like it should be paying off soon. And it's been sitting in front of us the whole time, so it would certainly happen naturally. Shallan, Dalinar, and/or Renarin may also have some new thoughts to share with Adolin soon regarding gem-bonded blades…

The gem is required to form the bond with the dead-Blade, it isn't required to maintain it. Shattering it does not break the bond: the wielder has to send a command, which is said to be difficult, to sever it. As far as we can tell, removing the gem wouldn't change anything into the bond a wielder has with his dead-Blade, but it has been theorized Adolin perhaps needs to unbond his Blade to form a Nahel bond with it. I am not sure why though, if he breaks his bond, then he won't have any connection to it. The gem connection might be imperfect but it allows the dead-spren to communicate with the wielder, even if through an imperfect mean.

While there is some ground-work done, I still worry it can actually be done in a way which doesn't feel contrived. We'll have to see. I do however think Adolin will learn about the nature of his Blade through either Dalinar, Shallan or Renarin and he won't take to this knowledge easily. I mean, how would you react by learning the Blade you treat like a partner/friend actually hated you and would scream at you to leave her be should you be able to hear her? The truth is likely to disheartened someone like Adolin, greatly.

[Frostlander]

12 hours ago, Calderis said:

There is no illness. They just need to keep the blade in close proximity for the duration of the bond forming. The "illness" Dalinar suffered was a ruse to bond a Shardblade in secret 

Ah. That's right. I'd forgotten about that. Thanks!

3 hours ago, maxal said:

The gem is required to form the bond with the dead-Blade, it isn't required to maintain it. Shattering it does not break the bond: the wielder has to send a command, which is said to be difficult, to sever it.

Also true. It looks like I got a little excited when talking about the gem. I suppose the gem aspect is part hunch, part narrative analysis, and partly based on all of the (admittedly incomplete) info we've been getting about gems trapping spren. I think that in a system that relies so much on honor and bonds, anytime we see a bond that doesn't rest on the consent of both parties, we should get at least a bit suspicious. Since the gem is required to create and break* the forced bond, it's hard to see Adolin having a real Nahel bond as long as the forced bond is there. Of course, it's possible that the first bond will allow Adolin to initially communicate with the spren somehow, leading to an unbonding and later, mutual bonding. The gem might be removed or fall out, but it's got to go at some point. Oathbringer may provide more information about gems and bonds, too.

3 hours ago, maxal said:

I do however think Adolin will learn about the nature of his Blade through either Dalinar, Shallan or Renarin and he won't take to this knowledge easily. I mean, how would you react by learning the Blade you treat like a partner/friend actually hated you and would scream at you to leave her be should you be able to hear her? The truth is likely to disheartened someone like Adolin, greatly.

On the other hand, the knowledge may push Adolin to listen harder to blades who have been ignored, remember spren who have been forgotten, and bring out certain Edgedancer-y healing qualities. I doubt that step could be taken otherwise. So, it might be painful at first, but the pair of them may both be better in the end. 

*Just remembered that Dalinar didn't need to touch the gem when unbonding the blade at the end of WoR, so the tapping is probably a cognitive thing. That said, I do think that the presence of a gem (or perhaps being bonded to a BedazzledBlade) would prevent the formation of a true Nahel bond.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Frostlander
Stormfather's Pommel?

[Velvet Thunder he/him]

This WoB seems like it may relate to the discovery, and if it is this scene, may support the theory. (Bold text)

Quote

INTERVIEW: Sep 16th, 2010

Stomping on Yeti: Interview with Brandon Sanderson (Verbatim)

YETISTOMPER

The Way of Kings serves mostly as an introduction to the world of The Stormlight Archives but only hints at the larger story arc. With the long wait before Book 2, can you provide hungry fans with any teasers?

BRANDON SANDERSON

What Jasnah is trying to do in this book becomes very important to the next two books. That's a very big teaser. The second book will delve much more deeply into the magic; particularly, Shadesmar will be much more of an important aspect. I don't want to give spoilers.

A lot more magic. I'm telling the story about the awakening of an Age of Legends-style world of mechanical magic, and you can look forward to seeing a lot more of that. We only hint at it here. A very important discovery was made by some characters in a random interlude that will have long-lasting ramifications.

 

[Calderis he/him]

29 minutes ago, Velvet Thunder said:

This WoB seems like it may relate to the discovery, and if it is this scene, may support the theory. (Bold text)

 

The bold text in context of the rest of his response implies there discovery has everything to do with trapping live spren for Fabrial-Tech to advance the tech level of the world as a whole. 

I don't think a mass resurrection of the Spren is possible as each would need their oaths resworn individually with a new person. 

The "fixed" state of dead spren as blades probably is somewhat related to the findings of those ardent, but it was "recorded" individually by the Radiant who broke their oaths to that specific spren.